Cichlids And High Amonia

[Nickelback]

Hi I actually have a cichlid tank that houses eight cichlids two Bristlenose and one sucking loach.Unfortunately due to them being cichlids I was told to add them all at once or otherwise their would be alot of fighting over territory.I have been doing regular checks on the tank and water changes and the nitrate and nitrite are at zero perfect but the amonia sometimes registers at 2.0 in the green quite high.I've been doing a water change every three days and after I do the water change it goes down but three days later it is back up to 2.0.And then of course I do the next water change and it goes down again.I want to do a water change every day but am worried I will stress the fish greatly.When I do the water changes I have been doing I take just over 50% out but I'm worried I may be taking to much out.The fish all seem happy and lively.Is high amonia very very dangerous or moderately dangerous?Well I have notice the fish when they eat their food often put the food in their mouth and then spit it out is this because they don't like the food?Also are bristlenose good to keep with the cichlids when they get to their huge sizes as I think bristlenose only get to 3.5 inches?Well I know there is a million and one questions in there sorry to ask so many hope to get some help.

 

[jayjay]

didn't cycle your tank?

do water changes everyday.

BN's can get up to 6"

how big is your tank?

what sort of cichlids do you have?

 

[jacob4fish]

What type of cichlids are they? Did you cycle the tank?

Amonia can be very dangerous to fish. I would do small water changes until it settles ( about 30% max a day), also feed your fish less, maybe every two to three days. The fish are probably not eating their food due to the amonia, what food are you feeding them?

You could also add API ammo lock or nitra zorb to help reduce the amonia and make it less toxic.

 

[Nickelback]

Thanks for the reply.Well the tank is a four foot tank with just short of 200 litres.I am currently paying off a six foot tank to house them in and they will be in there in three months when it's paid off it's 570 litres as I know the one I have would be no good when they are no longer babies like they are now.The Cichlids I have are 1 x Chocolate,1 x Texas,1 x Jack Dempsey,1 x Salvini,1 x Firemouth,1 x Blue Acara and 2 x Convicts.Thanks for the information on the Bristlenose if they grow that big they should be ok then Well from now on then as it sounds as if you have given me the ok I will do a water change every day as you musn't think it will stress the fish out Do you think just over 50% is to much to take out everyday?I don't think I have cycled the tank proper which could be a drama.Are my fish going to be ok Well thanks again

Thanks too jacob4fish for your reply So the small water changes everyday 30% max a day sound the way to go then I have answered the other questions you asked in my last post.What I feed them is different everyday.Sometimes the cichlid pellets(mini)and cichlid flakes and other times bloodworm or cichlid dinner basically.Well am I going to lose my fish.When I get the six foot tank to put them in I think I will cycle it for alot longer but are they going to survive I'm really worried now they will die

 

[jacob4fish]

Your fish are probably not going to dye. Cichlids are more resilaint than normal community trops.

As for your lfs advising to put all your fish in at once, that is common practice for people keeping african cichlids, but with south and central american cichlids that you have, you could have put them in there a bit more gradually without much problem.

Doing more than 50% water change is a bit too much, you can do the 30% daily. You could also add an air pump into your tank for a bit more oxygen and water movement until it sewttles down.

Im sure your fish will survive this drama and will certainly enjoy going into their new tank.

 

[Nickelback]

Your fish are probably not going to dye. Cichlids are more resilaint than normal community trops.

As for your lfs advising to put all your fish in at once, that is common practice for people keeping african cichlids, but with south and central american cichlids that you have, you could have put them in there a bit more gradually without much problem.

Doing more than 50% water change is a bit too much, you can do the 30% daily. You could also add an air pump into your tank for a bit more oxygen and water movement until it sewttles down.

Im sure your fish will survive this drama and will certainly enjoy going into their new tank.

What a relief that is That is good news and your advice is priceless My fish will be very happy you gave me this advice So I will do a 30% water change everyday and when I get the new tank cycle it proper and rather than put them all in at once gradually put them in.I have to air pumps in the tank at present so that sounds like a bonus.I will feed them less as they obviously aren't eating properly under the stressful conditions and hopefully everything will turn out ok then Well thanks so much for your help.I hope you enjoy your day

 

[KathyM]

Just a suggestion - but you might want to thin out who's going in the 6ft as even then they'll be overstocked.

 

[Nickelback]

The pet shop told me that the tank size I was buying was fine to house them all as three grew big and five smaller(the cichlids not counting the Bristlenose etc).Thank for the advice By the way how much bigger tank would I need if I was going to house the whole lot.

 

[pica_nuttalli]

ok, i'm resurrecting this topic because the tank size issue really needs to be addressed.

lesse what you've got...

1 x Chocolate
12" in length
relatively peaceful
250 liter minimum

1 x Texas
10" length
aggressive

1 x Jack Dempsey
9" length
highly aggressive
180 liter minimum

1 x Salvini
9" length
aggressive

1 x Firemouth
6" length
mildly aggressive
120 liter minimum

1 x Blue Acara
8" length
mildly aggressive
200 liter minimum

2 x Convicts
8" length
aggressive
"A spawning Convict pair is only really assured of long-term, adult sized compatibility with each other, when stocked in four foot long aquariums."

-------------------------------
your cichlids can be pretty easily divided into two groups, based on temperament.

nice(ish): chocolate cichlid, blue acara, firemouth cichlid, maybe female convict cichlid
evil(ish): texas cichlid, jack dempsey, salvini, male convict cichlid

unfortunately, the nicest group includes the biggest fish. this is unfortunate because one of the best ways to reduce aggression between cichlids is to keep them in fairly large tank. presuming that you can keep both the 4' and the 6' tanks, you're still presented with a dilemma. you won't want to put the nice fish in the smaller tank b/c the chocolate cichlid grows so big and is really messy. but you wouldn't want to put the evil fish in the smaller tank, well, because they're evil.

best solution? find new homes for someone!

 

[Nickelback]

ok, i'm resurrecting this topic because the tank size issue really needs to be addressed.

lesse what you've got...

1 x Chocolate
12" in length
relatively peaceful
250 liter minimum

1 x Texas
10" length
aggressive

1 x Jack Dempsey
9" length
highly aggressive
180 liter minimum

1 x Salvini
9" length
aggressive

1 x Firemouth
6" length
mildly aggressive
120 liter minimum

1 x Blue Acara
8" length
mildly aggressive
200 liter minimum

2 x Convicts
8" length
aggressive
"A spawning Convict pair is only really assured of long-term, adult sized compatibility with each other, when stocked in four foot long aquariums."

-------------------------------
your cichlids can be pretty easily divided into two groups, based on temperament.

nice(ish): chocolate cichlid, blue acara, firemouth cichlid, maybe female convict cichlid
evil(ish): texas cichlid, jack dempsey, salvini, male convict cichlid

unfortunately, the nicest group includes the biggest fish. this is unfortunate because one of the best ways to reduce aggression between cichlids is to keep them in fairly large tank. presuming that you can keep both the 4' and the 6' tanks, you're still presented with a dilemma. you won't want to put the nice fish in the smaller tank b/c the chocolate cichlid grows so big and is really messy. but you wouldn't want to put the evil fish in the smaller tank, well, because they're evil.

best solution? find new homes for someone!

Thanks for that info it's a little dissapointing when the pet shop tells you otherwise I wish they would get it right as it's frustrating for me Anyhow if I bought another tank for the two convict cichlids and then kept the rest together would that be ok. If I bought another tank for the convict cichlids how big would it need to be if I was only keeping the two cichlids in there and taking into consideration they may breed?Your probably gonna answer me with the news that no just seperating the convicts wouldn't be enough but I'll ask as I'm fairly new to fishkeeping.Well thanks for the information Fishkeeping is a learning experience for me all the best from Steph

 

[pica_nuttalli]

you can't mix the peaceful and aggressive cichlids. not without risking the early demise of the peaceful ones, anyways.

what would be better than keeping the convicts separate from the other cichlids would be to keep the convicts apart from each other. breeding convicts are a danger to each other as well as any other living objects in their vicinity. confict fry is also problematic to dispose largely because convicts reproduce quickly and in abundance. most LFS willing to buy convict fry are quickly filled up and you (the breeder) wind up stuck with any additional spawns. think about the guppy problem only with fish that live for around ten years as little balls of fury.

you might could keep the female convict with the peaceful cichlids, but some females are as violent as the males.

the peaceful cichlids could probably live out their adult lives in the 4' tank except for the chocolate cichlid. my readings indicate that the chocolate chiclid is a milder version of the oscar and has similar filtration/size needs. thus he really ought to be kept in a tank with an 18" minimum width, which i doubt your 4' tank has since its just 180 liters.

in my opinion, you should either rehome the chocolate cichlid or all of the aggressive cichlids. with just the one 6' tank, you don't have the capacity to house both groups simultaneously. unless you can acquire another tank with a minimum 18" width and 48" length within one year, you will seriously damage the health of the chocolate cichlids AND his tankmates. and in less than a year, your aggressive cichlids will reach maturity and they will start beating the crap out of everything as they try to claim their own territories.

if you are determined to keep all of your cichlids, i suggest that you start checking the local newspapers for used tanks on pretty much a daily basis. you can often find some pretty good deals on larger tanks by doing so. if you can successfully locate a large enough tank, then some of your larger community fish can also be moved in with the peaceful cichlids. (Particularly, I'd move the Kissing Gouramis, Clown Loaches, Silver Sharks, and Silver Dollars. All of these grow to be quite large and should therefore do OK with the peaceful cichlids.) (That is, in a 6x2x2 or so)

and FYI: the quickie way to convert between liters and gallons is to divide the liters by ~4.
(1 gallon is about 3.75 liters)