Cichlids And Barbs

[arabballin]

My tank is almost done cycling i think about another week and its set.

The decor is set, except im adding a few plants tommorow and maybe one more thing for the fish to hid in.

Now its finally time to worry about fish.

What i have in mind for my 30 gallon:
2 Convicts
6 tiger barbs (or another kind of barb that will work better)
a bristle nose pleco(or another pleco that will fit in that i like better)

or how about this...


2 yellow lab cichlids
2 blue/black joahni chiclids
1 pleco
and maybe some tiger barbs(i really would like some)

ive been told this will work from a friend who has had this set up for almost a year in his 29 gallon. he told me this will work because these cichlids are not as big as convicts and not anywhere near as aggressive so that they will work better in a community

What do you think?
Will this work?
Can i add anything else?

 

[adambrum]

What are the tank dimensions ,

You are at the very minimum size to keep cichlids but you might be able to squeeze some in but not the "blue/black joahni chiclids" there from the melanochromis family and will be way to aggressive and the yellow labs will get to big.

I would see what you are able to get from your lfs and have a quick read of the pinned topic at the top to get an idea of water stats needed, I think that the barbs need a softer more acidic water that cichlids from east africa.

The only plec a i would add with cichlids would be a b/n.

 

[Ferris]

I would steer clear of Mbuna for a 30 gal tank, its too small IMO. You would be better looking at the pair of convicts.

 

[rixy]

30 gallon is too small for mbuna really.its not that the tank couldnt house them,its the fact that they can be visious little sods and for the weaker fish,theres no where to escape.id really suggest a 4 foot long tank for keeping mbuna then you could possibly put in between 15-25 mbuna depending on what species they are

 

[jayjay]

Well I'd say in a 30g, mbuna could work, smaller species like saulousi etc. Maybe even a group of yellow labs.

The convicts however I do not think will work with the barbs, the pair and some 'tough' bottom dwellers, like dora's, armoured plecs etc.

 

[Ferris]

Well I'd say in a 30g, mbuna could work, smaller species like saulousi etc. Maybe even a group of yellow labs

Could work i would agree with - Should is another matter.

Whilst aggression isn't so much of an issue with Labs, their potential size is - a 30 gal just doesn't give these active fish enough room.

I would also rule out Afra's - They are one of the smaller Mbuna species but can be feisty at best and very aggressive at worst - not reccommended for such a small tank.

Saulosi is a more realistic option - I personally wouldn't do it but it certainly can be done.

 

[jayjay]

Why shouldn't it work? Lab's, say 4 or 5, over filtered, high water change schedule. I still think 30g is enough for yellow labs, they don't grow that big and 30g's can have quite a good footprint.

Lots of things shouldn't be done, things like people keeping, large cichlids like GT's and large, fast swimming fish like bala's in tanks too small, still be see it as fine. I see know problem with some 5" labs in a 30g. What would you say is minimum size for them then?

 

[arabballin]

i did some research and i found a few places that said salousi would work in a 30 gallon with the barbs and if i got them all very young things would work out even better.

 

[Murray]

would tiger barbs go with two kribs in a 20 g tank, i love tiger barbs, always have, but never had fish compatable with them and it always ended in disaster

 

[Ferris]

What would you say is minimum size for them then?

Personally i don't think any Mbuna should be kept in anything less than a 55 gal. In terms of a bare minimum, i would suggest a 40 gal.

Mbuna are very active fish and i just don't see the sense in cramming them into small tanks. As i always say - it can be done but why not do it better.

 

[jayjay]

Tiger barbs need a 30g minimum so not in a 20g with kribs.

As for tiger barbs with mbuna, I don't feel it will work, water needs vary etc. And for tiger barbs with convicts, you will end up with dead tiger barbs, I'd bet with a breeding pair.

Try and to use dimensions Ferris, a 40g can be a lot better than a 55g for mbuna. A 40g breeder for example is L48"xW15"xH12" while a 55g is somewhere along the line (normally) of L48"xW12or13"xH21". The benefit of stability is overruled by area in my opinion.

 

[Ferris]

Try and to use dimensions Ferris, a 40g can be a lot better than a 55g for mbuna. A 40g breeder for example is L48"xW15"xH12" while a 55g is somewhere along the line (normally) of L48"xW12or13"xH21". The benefit of stability is overruled by area in my opinion

Tank dimensions are certainly important but in this case 4 feet is 4 feet - the rest is pretty much irrelevant. A 40 gal with the dimensions you suggested is fine for Mbuna although how it can be better than a 55 is beyond me, there is very little difference

Completely agree that TB's would be risky with Mbuna or a mated pair of Cons - just too many potential problems.

 

[dthoffsett]

Why shouldn't it work? Lab's, say 4 or 5, over filtered, high water change schedule. I still think 30g is enough for yellow labs, they don't grow that big and 30g's can have quite a good footprint.

Lots of things shouldn't be done, things like people keeping, large cichlids like GT's and large, fast swimming fish like bala's in tanks too small, still be see it as fine. I see know problem with some 5" labs in a 30g. What would you say is minimum size for them then?

I started out with 5 labs in a 29gal tank (same footprint as the 30), with sand and tons of rocks, I ended up with 3 labs (1m/2f) when I moved them to the 75gal. The 29 was running for almost a year. Even though labs are considered less aggressive, that's only by mbuna standards, by tropical fish standards they are extremely aggressive. The biggest problem I found, was that the tank just wasn't long enough for the subdominant fish to get away from the dominant male. I also found that the females set up a pecking order, so the weaker females would get picked on by both the male and dominant females. I agree with Ferris and the others, 4 feet is the minimum length for mbuna.

arabballin: Mbuna simply aren't compatible outside of a mbuna community, so if you really want tiger barbs, I would suggest finding something that is compatible with tiger barbs and work with them as the center piece. I'm not too sure but would rams work with them? I think they are less aggressive than convicts.

 

[arabballin]

i have decided to go with an all mbuna tank knowing full well ill be getting a bigger tank in a few months and i just like the cichlids too much.

What would you all reccomend for this stock?

I was thinking of getting one of a few different species because i heard this works pretty well.

What do you all think?

 

[dthoffsett]

Personally, I recommend waiting until you get the larger tank, however, if you are determined to start with the smaller tank I would only put one species in. Even as juveniles, mbuna can be aggressive, and your tank is simply too small to mix species, even for only a few months. The two species that seem to do the best in smaller tanks are l. caeruleus (yellow labs) in a group of 1m/3-4f, or p. saulousi 1m/4-5f, the male to female ratio isn't as important when they are juveniles, but when fed well they will grow rapidly and agression can become a problem. You will also want to put in as many rocks as possible, this is very important in a smaller tank as weaker fish will need plenty of places to hide.

As far as eventual stock in the larger tank it depends on what sized tank you get. As recommended by others, 55gal really should be the minimum tank size, however since mbuna generally only occupy the lower part of the tank, dimensions are more important than gallons (ie. more floor space means more fish). And, the larger you go, the more variety you can choose from. Here are a couple of links to check out suggested stocking levels.

55gal: http/www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_55g.php

75gal: http/www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/cookie_cutter_75g.php

And check out our pinned african tanks for ideas in setup and stocking levels
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=169788