Cherry Barb Stocking Options

[ginaekdal]

A little while ago I made the discovery of a surprise fry in my secondhand tank. The egg must have gone unnoticed in the substrate and the fry somehow made it through moving house. It is a P. titteya, I have been unable to sex him yet, and provided he makes it past the stage where he is small enough to be eaten I will look into placing an order for a group of these.
 
I am hoping someone with experience of this fish can offer input on stocking that will work alongside.
 
The tank holds 115 litres and measures 74x39x40 cm. The goal is to find one species (or a few viable alternatives to choose from) that I can happily keep with the barbs in this tank. I would want the second species to add some interest, as the barbs are admittedly not my favourite fish to look at in terms of colouring. I do like their behaviour in the tank, both from observing the fry and looking at videos. I feel the responsibility to provide optimal care for the fry now that he is here, regardless of where the species ranks on my favourite list, and as such I realise I will need to stock a group.
 
I have outlined a few alternatives and questions that I would appreciate thoughts on.
 
At what size can more barbs (and a second species) safely be added? I have been unable to accurately measure the fry through the glass but I would estimate he is around 7 - 8 mm, give or take. He really is tiny and I might be wrong. I am unsure of the exact age and at a guesstimate he could have hatched between two to three weeks ago. I am of course prepared to wait it out until introducing bigger fish is safe. Would the ideal thing be to wait until more barbs can be added and do that first or to add a smaller species, less capable of eating him than grown cherry barbs, sooner?
 
In the meantime all I can do is wait and plan ahead, which brings me to the following eventual stocking scenarios, in no particular order of preference.
 
1. I bump up the barbs to 6 - 10 and add a species of small cory alongside them. This will not add the colour I would like, but I feel confident it would work space wise.

2. I bump up the barbs to 6 - 10 and add a second, smaller shoaling species. This would let me add colour but I am very unsure about potential species and numbers and whether it is at all viable. I like smaller species with B. brigittae being a favourite, but other Boraras are nice too, albeit potentially hard for me to find. I also like M. kubotai, and some of the smaller tetras although I find tetras a little busy for my liking.

3. I bump up the barbs to 6 - 10 and add a relatively small centrepiece fish, I expect tank capacity wise I need a fish that can live alone or as a pair, or a very small group. Would a species of gourami work? I like the "red" variant of Trichogaster chuna but I see these should be kept as a group, too, and I don't have a massive amount of space. I also like the Trichopsis pumila, but these might not be suitable with the bigger barbs? Are there any other small, peaceful alternatives here for a single/pair/small group fish compatible with the barbs?
 
I do have a second, smaller tank that when cycled will mean I can juggle stocking around a little for a while, but for now the fry is staying put in the big one.
 
ETA. I do have soft water with a pH of 6,4 and dGH of 1, so I am only looking for soft water fish.

 

[Byron]

I would wait for the fry to get to a decent size before putting it in with larger fish.  It somewhat depends upon the fish selected, but generally I would raise the fry to about 2 cm on its own.  I frequently rescue fry from my canister filters when rinsing them, and they go into my new fish QT tank (which is normally empty of fish) until they are large enough to move into the main tank with the rest of the species.  Most any fish will be likely to eat a tiny fish.
 
To the other issue...in general barbs are fairly active swimmers, so they tend to do fairly well together, with some exceptions.  Slower or sedate fish (anabantids, cichlids, rasbora, and some characins) are not good tankmates for this reason.  And being active, barbs need more linear space than similarly-sized fish that are less active.
 
Now, having said that...the cherry barb Puntius titteya is something of an exception, in that it is normally not as boisterous as many of its cousins.  Personally, I would not add very small fish (the dwarf-sized rasboras mentioned, in Boraras, etc.) in with this barb, but find fish that are closer to the size of the barb, or perhaps a tad larger.  You might get some ideas from the Habitat info here which mentions sympatric species:
http/www.seriouslyfish.com/species/puntius-titteya/
 
Corys for the lower level would work, or if you want to stay closer to the geographical origin (SE Asia) perhaps the dwarf loach Ambastaia sidthimunki in a group of five to six.  Or another lovely dwarf species, Micronemacheilus cruciatus.
 
Byron.

 

[ginaekdal]

Thank you! I am completely unfamiliar with loaches so I will need to look more closely into those. Would you say I would be looking strictly at the dwarf species mentioned, if I go down that road?
 
I expect I will need him to at the very least double in size, which gives me some time. I haven't found much information on how they develop, or expected growth rates, but he is eating well. If the smaller tank (which is 63 litres with dimensions of 60x30x40) is cycled and scaped by the time he reaches the right size I might as an alternative make a P. titteya species tank out of that one if all else fails. I believe a small group would work there. As excited as I am about the surprise fry it has certainly thrown me for a loop with not being a species I would have considered otherwise.

 

[Munroco]

You can more or less instantly cycle your smaller tank by using water from the larger tank along with some of the filter material. (TBH the amount of waste a fish that size will produce anyway would be miniscule.) So you could move your little guy now and then sort out your bigger tank.

 

[ginaekdal]

Unfortuately the filter in the smaller tank is a Juwel internal and as such impossible to fry proof, since there is no way to get a stocking around the intake, so I cannot risk moving him at present. Otherwise I would quite possibly have moved part of the sponge over and let him have that tank. As it is the tank is also lacking substrate and a ways from being ready for fish. I thought I had two empty tanks to scape for a while yet! Well, the bigger tank is housing a snail colony alongside the fry, so not entirely empty, it was just supposed to empty of fish. I will put a piece of sponge from the Juwel in the other filter in the meantime which will cut down on cycling when I get the substrate and soaking wood currently taking up the small tank sorted. Bit of an added challenge having to work around the little guy, but still fun.

 

[Byron]

Thank you! I am completely unfamiliar with loaches so I will need to look more closely into those. Would you say I would be looking strictly at the dwarf species mentioned, if I go down that road?
 
I expect I will need him to at the very least double in size, which gives me some time. I haven't found much information on how they develop, or expected growth rates, but he is eating well. If the smaller tank (which is 63 litres with dimensions of 60x30x40) is cycled and scaped by the time he reaches the right size I might as an alternative make a P. titteya species tank out of that one if all else fails. I believe a small group would work there. As excited as I am about the surprise fry it has certainly thrown me for a loop with not being a species I would have considered otherwise.

 
Yes. a group of 7-8 cherry barbs could manage in the 63 litre tank.
 
To the loaches...most species attain a decent size, and as mentioned are shoaling fish so a group of I would say five minimum, and are territorial so they need space.  Some species have rather nasty behaviours--the Skunk Loach, Yasuhikotakia morleti, though one of the smaller species at 7-9cm, can be extremely nasty to not only its own but other species above, fin nipping and worse.  Botia kubotai at 10-13 cm is one of the peaceful species provided it is in a group of five or more.  I've had this species for several years now, but I would not put it in a relatively small space, it needs at least a 90cm length tank.  The Zebra Loach, Botia striata, would work in a group of five or six.  Or either of the two previously mentioned "dwarf" species.  There are other species more rarely encountered in the hobby.  I've had all those mentioned here.
 
Loaches need lots of chunks of wood, with tunnels and crevices.  Each loach likes to select its own "home," but part of their socializing is to play tag, chasing one another through the wood tunnels, or engaging in the so-called "loach dance."  A highly social group of fishes, but this "play" has a serious side for the fish of course.
 
Byron.

 

[ginaekdal]

Thanks for the additional thoughts!
 
I am at the moment leaning towards growing him out in the big tank, it being fry proof, and moving him on to the small one when it is finished and he is big enough. I can scape the tanks in the meantime which will make the wait a little less noticeable. If I do this I will put in an order for a group to go with him when ready, and stock my bigger tank as originally intended when he is moved. I might be able to partly stock the 63 litre while he is growing in the 115 if I do this. I could have left them in the big tank but I feel it would really limit my stocking options, so given that they will live in the small tank it seems a very likely option now.
 
So with that said, should I look to stock a certain gender ratio for the barbs? I am unsure when these start developing noticeable male or female characteristics, and I have no others to compare the fry with, so I dare not venture a guess. The strongly visible black lateral line and black head markings remind me more of the female barb, but perhaps they colour up late? In any case I would not expect to see optimal colouration with my current setup, as the tank is bare of plants (not for long) and devoid of conspecifics. I am not particularly keen on having a spawning group, which I would expect from stocking both males and females. Are there drawbacks to having an all-female group, a group with one being male and the rest females, or an all-male group of these? If the fry turns out to be female I do worry I might have problems finding more females as they are not the most commonly seen species here.

 

[Gruntle]

I think with Cherry Barbs, a 1:2 ratio of males to females is recommended. A school of at least 6 is also recommended (and with 2 males you'll find one will be "dominant" and have more colour).
 
Colouration is stronger with a planted setup (and a dark substrate also helps).
 
I've had a school of six (2 male, 4 female) and occasionally spotted a juvenile (until my rainbowfish polished them off). Looking to restock soon, but waiting for cooler weather.

 

[Byron]

I suspect with juvenile fish, which is what one is most likely to see in stores, gender will be very difficult to distinguish.  Males are slimmer, and more colourful as Gruntle mentioned, but this often only becomes noticeable in more mature fish.  I would just get a group of 6-7 (remembering the one fry already) and not fuss.
 
As for spawning, if they are happy, they will spawn.  Same applies to most egg layers.  Fry may survive, in well planted tanks, or getting rescued from a canister filter as in my case, but in most cases the eggs get eaten by the other barbs and usually within seconds of being scattered.  There is no reason to avoid this; for one thing, these barbs are not going to be tearing each other to bits when spawning, and when there are both genders of a species present,one tends to see more interaction and this is I think the joy of this hobby--observing the natural behaviours of fish.  My Black Ruby Barbs are regularly spawning, but to watch two males, with sometimes a third trying to join in, in coal-black body colour with bright red heads, spinning around in a circle so fast you only see a blur...this is indeed a treat.
 
Byron.

 

[ginaekdal]

As long as they are likely to eat the eggs I have no reason to worry, then, I just want to prevent ending up with too many barbs as I would be unable to fit a third, bigger tank in my flat, and the species is not the easiest to rehome here. I am happy to care for a group in the smaller tank but I want to leave it at that as I have a bigger interest in other species.