Chemical Levels In Tank At Initial Phase Of Cycling Question

[simonmac2]

I am now on day 4 of my cycling, but want to ensure I am giving the bacteria the best possible conditions (and therefore have the shortest possible cycling time)

baseline tapwater: Nitrite - 0ppm, Ammonia - 0ppm, Nitrate - 0ppm, Ph - 7

Tank test results:

Day 0: - Ammonia - 4ppm, NO2 - 0ppm
Day 1: - Ammonia - 4ppm
Day 2: - Ammonia - 4ppm, Ph - 8.5 (nitrate and carbon filter removed after testing)
Day 3: - Ammonia - 4ppm, NO2 - 0.1ppm, Ph 8.5

My query revolves around the Ph I suppose. after the removal of the NO2 filter yesterday, I am assuming (and we all know what happened to assume...) that a slight presence of NO2 means that bacteria IS growing and eating the Ammonia (but not enough to dent the 4ppm yet) Is the fact that the Ph is now up at 8.5 ok for the bacteria growth? I wouldn't want to stall because i didn't do a water change if that is all that is needed.

advice on a postcard gratefully recieved and will be followed to the letter....

I am awaiting the arrival of a different test kit today to see if the results differ.

Regards

Simon

 

[redevilman]

Hi what test kit are you using at the moment

 

[Miss Wiggle]

You are correct that the NO2 means the cycle is progressing, good start for 4 days in

I can't remember the exact ratio but it works something like this, 1ppm of ammonia converts into 3ppm of nitrite, each 1ppm of nitrite converts into 3ppm of nitrate. So you can see how it multiplys, so sometimes your test kit doesn't register any drop in ammonia but you start to see nitrite or nitrate building up.

A highere pH usually means a quicker cycle, there is a cut off point at which it becomes detrimental but I can't remember where that is..... hopefully someone will chip!

 

[simonmac2]

Hi all,

the previous set of results were with the Interpet tests. <rant> what a badly put together kit. differing results for repeated tests...oooo makes yer blood boil! </rant>

The API testkit arrived via the posty today no-one stocks it on the island, so got the masterkit delivered via ebay (from http/stores.ebay.co.uk/Last-Trading-Post if you're interested £10 cheaper than my lfs)...no connection etc with store

anyway...

API results:

Baseline Tap Ph reads 7.4 (not 7 as previously posted)
Readings today - Ammonia >4 <8ppm [ouch] NO2 - 0, NO3 - 0 Ph 7.5

so overall i am happy not having such a marked difference between the tap Ph and the tank Ph. Bit disappointed that the NO2 result from interpet was a rogue, but the ammonia level is probably around 6 or even higher. it is much darker than the 4ppm but not far off the 8ppm on the scale.

I am assuming that people with decent lfs/pet shops near them just buy refills for the API master kit rather than getting a new complete kit when one test runs out. Any recomendations for online store that sells chemicals, filters etc as we tend to pay RRP +% shipping charges.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Sounds good, I would do a water change to drop the ammonia level a bit. If it gets above 8ppm it can stall the cycle so if you think you're at about 6ppm now then doing a 30% water change should drop you to 4ppm or there abouts. It's not an exact science but you should try to maintain it around there.

Umm dunno about the replacement tests tbh, I bought a test kit ages ago, got together with my other half and he moved in with me with his test kit so we had duplicates of everything, cos the tanks well mature we only test if we suspect there might be a problem now. Once your past the cycling phase and the tank/s matured a bit you'll find you don't need to test so often which means the test kits last quite a long time!

 

[waterdrop]

MW, I'd guess he's just quoting the 4-8ppm range that the api ammonia kit shows when you get to that particular green - could very well be 5ppm - takes a while of using the kit and getting consistent with lighting etc.

Also, I'm in same boat as you, can't remember where, above 8, the pH goes from being very good (8!) to very bad (stall!) but I guess we lucked out because it must have just been his Interpet reading anyway (whew!)

OK, Simon, reading your first message in this thread I had a thought to share. First off, what with the pink fish and the island and all, we didn't think we'd get to see you as a fishless cycler, so its really great that you're now on the right course hopefully and even better that you're trying to be as correct as possible about it. My thought is a little warning not to get too wishful thinking that this might be very scientific feeling! (you used the word "therefor"!) The great randomizer in fishless cycling (at least one of them I think) is the unknown number of "inoculants" coming unseen in the water and/or air. They are definately always there, but how many of them you happen to get I would guess can vary a lot. (ie. you can do everything right but your cycling can take much longer or be much faster than someone else, weeks of difference!)

Oh well, that's all beside the point. Best thing is that you definately want to be doing the right things and the battle is half won once you have that desire. For now, I'd say you can get by with doing ammonia tests once or twice a day and pH once a day. No real need to start nitrite yet unless it makes you feel better to know that yes, a little nitrite is getting produced even though no apparent dent in the ammonia. Then, once you get definate dropping in the ammonia, you can start adding in the nitrite tests. The nitrite test, which is much more trouble to do anyway, can wait quite a bit!

Oh, and about the refills, yes, that's exactly what I did. I picked up an ammonia kit by itself when I realized I was using that up the fastest (8 drops each time as opposed to 5 or 3) rather than getting a whole second master kit.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Miss Wiggle]

MW, I'd guess he's just quoting the 4-8ppm range that the api ammonia kit shows when you get to that particular green - could very well be 5ppm - takes a while of using the kit and getting consistent with lighting etc.

Also, I'm in same boat as you, can't remember where, above 8, the pH goes from being very good (8!) to very bad (stall!) but I guess we lucked out because it must have just been his Interpet reading anyway (whew!)

yeah, he said it looked sorta half way between the 4 and 8ppm though, so if we guess it's around 6 then it could probably do with dropping down a bit. I always think cos there's so much varience in the results (i.e. hard to read so inconsistent readings) it's better for the ammonia to be a little low than a little high, as the 'little high' could push you over the 8ppm and stall it, 'little low' will make virtually no difference at all as people often drop the ammonia down to 2/3ppm when at the nitrite stage of cycling then raise it back up again at the end with sucessful results.

but yeah, seems like dodgy interpet test kit.

 

[simonmac2]

Thanks waterdrop & MW

my daughter is happily scanning the fish book i bought her (and discussing the options with her zebra's who are on holiday in the little tank)

she is accepting the reasoning for the holiday - i just want to make sure i don't screw up my side of the deal I've replaced 20% of the water (i'm not ignoring MW's advice, but the maths was so much easier - 180l tank, 9l bucket, dechlorinator 4ml per 36l - i.e. 1ml a bucket) - waited and then tested and it is really close to 4ppm so i'll leave it alone.

i'll keep checking the ammonia - hopefully it will drop by Monday

Simon

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Thanks waterdrop & MW

my daughter is happily scanning the fish book i bought her (and discussing the options with her zebra's who are on holiday in the little tank)

she is accepting the reasoning for the holiday - i just want to make sure i don't screw up my side of the deal I've replaced 20% of the water (i'm not ignoring MW's advice, but the maths was so much easier - 180l tank, 9l bucket, dechlorinator 4ml per 36l - i.e. 1ml a bucket) - waited and then tested and it is really close to 4ppm so i'll leave it alone.

i'll keep checking the ammonia - hopefully it will drop by Monday

Simon

awwww seriously your daughter sounds absolutley adorable, glad that she's taken the news well!!

lol, no worries, it's only ever a rough guess anyway. If it's closer to 4ppm now then that's where you want to be.

We'll have our fingers crossed, make sure you pop back and let us know how you're getting on.

 

[waterdrop]

see, there we go again, I'm tellin' ya, you're a smart man simon, she's hooked on this "pink" thread (you can tell when she say "awwww") and I'll bet you've got yourself a permanent top tank advisor

 

[Miss Wiggle]

see, there we go again, I'm tellin' ya, you're a smart man simon, she's hooked on this "pink" thread (you can tell when she say "awwww") and I'll bet you've got yourself a permanent top tank advisor

he he, i do have a certain fondness for pink things....... even had my hair bright pink not so long ago.....


anyway you know me WD, I do try to see people through from start to finish.....

oh and i'm generally pretty broody (although won't be acting on it for a few years yet) so anything about peoples kids being cute is gonna get at the very least an 'awwwwww'

 

[simonmac2]

i'll take all the advice that is going as i get up to speed in this new field I subscribe to the "circle of knowledge" theory, i.e. the level of ignorance (lack of knowledge NOT attitude) is equivalent to the circumference of a small circle when you start out. When you don't know much [the circle], there isn't much that you know you don't know [the circumference]...if you follow the tortured logic.

when you know more (and the circle gets much bigger) you know that there is a lot more that you have yet to master, even though you have learned so much in the interim (the circumference is much bigger)

o ---> O

i know there is a lot i don't know about raising a nipper...

God help her first boyfriend!

....maybe i could drown him in the tank....

 

[waterdrop]

o, O, I get it (oh, and I get to laugh too, don't I) (gads, love that you all call them nippers!)

 

[Miss Wiggle]

God help her first boyfriend!

....maybe i could drown him in the tank....

lmao

Ian absolutley dreads us having girls for just that reason, that being said he's 6'4 and not far off 20 stone so he's only got to stand up straight, fold his arms and glare to scare off any dodgy teenage boys..... ha ha ha (he's a gentle giant btw though, not about to do anything, but at least he can have dodgy boys running scared )

 

[simonmac2]

God help her first boyfriend!

....maybe i could drown him in the tank....

lmao

Ian absolutley dreads us having girls for just that reason, that being said he's 6'4 and not far off 20 stone so he's only got to stand up straight, fold his arms and glare to scare off any dodgy teenage boys..... ha ha ha (he's a gentle giant btw though, not about to do anything, but at least he can have dodgy boys running scared )

ha ha - it starts WELL before that. The adorably innocent "i'm going to marry X when i grow up" and another mum recounting the story of finding a game of "show and tell" going on - how to handle situations like that without scaring either child...

it is the downside of only having one daughter (the natural curiosity...)