Changing Up The Archer Tank....

[Shovelman]

Well after i saw the thread and pictures of the mangrove environments on a previous thread, Im thinking of rescaping and possible reconsidering some of the stock choices in my 65 gallon archer fish tank...
Whats it like now? Well firstly i have 5 healthy active Toxotes microlepis, and 4 (was planning on more, since i do know there schooling fish....the 4 were all they had and for 25% off too) boesemani rainbow fish. Also an African knife fish who i will be re homing due to the slight aggression between the archers as they have their social hierarchy worked out (the king of the tank has changed to a completely black appearance while the others remain normal coloration).

-Basically the tank has root like driftwood on the far right side with thick plantings along the sides.... I'm thinking its a little too clogged up and thus some of the archers are sticking to staying under the "roots" due to the plants taking up some swimming space...

-So! I was thinking take out some of the hygro and penny-wort so all i have are the val species, java moss, and java fern and sell back the boesemani rainbow fish, and knife fish. Aso was planning on rescaping with maybe one or two pieces of the root like driftwood in the center of the tank and planting the java fern inside the lowly lit crevices. This leaving the back open area planted with the vals and partially on the sides too. All in all the main frontal space will be open and free with tall plantings along the sides and a dense "escape" of mangled driftwood in the center. Nice open, yet interesting layout.

-why? Well i know the archers are "fine" in freshwater being the species they are but they are also found in lowend brackish (I'm curious as to the specific ranges they are found in in their natural habitat) Also this will be sorta a test to see whether they are more outgoing and active in freshwater versus lowend brackish, also health wise too.

-lastly, since only the archer will be in the tank... any opportunities for fish in the same requirement area of 1.003-1.005 sg to coexist with these mighty yet small species of archers? Their not fully grown, the largest being 3" MAYBE 4" at the most. My lfs is awesome at getting in fish that id like mostly because i know the employees well (very lovely pop and ma run store) and ive given them excess plant growth and pointers/help with many of their oddball species. They also have an ACTUAL brackish tank, which is shocking since most stores don't bother with the correct conditions.So ive seen them have orange chromides, and figure eight puffers, both of which seem to be fine at this sg? Not saying id get either... just wondering what you would do?

 

[jonny5]

Well after i saw the thread and pictures of the mangrove environments on a previous thread, Im thinking of rescaping and possible reconsidering some of the stock choices in my 65 gallon archer fish tank...
Whats it like now? Well firstly i have 5 healthy active Toxotes microlepis, and 4 (was planning on more, since i do know there schooling fish....the 4 were all they had and for 25% off too) boesemani rainbow fish. Also an African knife fish who i will be re homing due to the slight aggression between the archers as they have their social hierarchy worked out (the king of the tank has changed to a completely black appearance while the others remain normal coloration).

-Basically the tank has root like driftwood on the far right side with thick plantings along the sides.... I'm thinking its a little too clogged up and thus some of the archers are sticking to staying under the "roots" due to the plants taking up some swimming space...

-So! I was thinking take out some of the hygro and penny-wort so all i have are the val species, java moss, and java fern and sell back the boesemani rainbow fish, and knife fish. Aso was planning on rescaping with maybe one or two pieces of the root like driftwood in the center of the tank and planting the java fern inside the lowly lit crevices. This leaving the back open area planted with the vals and partially on the sides too. All in all the main frontal space will be open and free with tall plantings along the sides and a dense "escape" of mangled driftwood in the center. Nice open, yet interesting layout.

-why? Well i know the archers are "fine" in freshwater being the species they are but they are also found in lowend brackish (I'm curious as to the specific ranges they are found in in their natural habitat) Also this will be sorta a test to see whether they are more outgoing and active in freshwater versus lowend brackish, also health wise too.

-lastly, since only the archer will be in the tank... any opportunities for fish in the same requirement area of 1.003-1.005 sg to coexist with these mighty yet small species of archers? Their not fully grown, the largest being 3" MAYBE 4" at the most. My lfs is awesome at getting in fish that id like mostly because i know the employees well (very lovely pop and ma run store) and ive given them excess plant growth and pointers/help with many of their oddball species. They also have an ACTUAL brackish tank, which is shocking since most stores don't bother with the correct conditions.So ive seen them have orange chromides, and figure eight puffers, both of which seem to be fine at this sg? Not saying id get either... just wondering what you would do?

I think you need some bottom dwellers. At that range, you can also keep dragon gobbies, which are great for a bottom dweller sand sifter but they will destory your plants. You can also keep horse faced loaches which are a little more plant friendly and kribensis does a good job at sand sifting as well.

i have an orange chromide and tried a figure 8 puffer onces. The chromide chases my archers around but does no real damage. He did however kill my smaller golden wonder killifish and might have taken out my kribensis if i had not put in a cave to decided to home.

When i tried a figure 8, he nipped the hell out of my dragon goby fines to the point of not growing back in some spots..so i got rid of him.
Although some chromides and figure 8's can be more peaceful, either way they will work with archers just might pick on some other smaller fish.
Mollys are always great, can add some color and live food to the tank. Since micro doesnt grow very large you might do Ok with swordtails, the pinapple lyretailed males are stunning.

 

[Shovelman]

Well after i saw the thread and pictures of the mangrove environments on a previous thread, Im thinking of rescaping and possible reconsidering some of the stock choices in my 65 gallon archer fish tank...
Whats it like now? Well firstly i have 5 healthy active Toxotes microlepis, and 4 (was planning on more, since i do know there schooling fish....the 4 were all they had and for 25% off too) boesemani rainbow fish. Also an African knife fish who i will be re homing due to the slight aggression between the archers as they have their social hierarchy worked out (the king of the tank has changed to a completely black appearance while the others remain normal coloration).

-Basically the tank has root like driftwood on the far right side with thick plantings along the sides.... I'm thinking its a little too clogged up and thus some of the archers are sticking to staying under the "roots" due to the plants taking up some swimming space...

-So! I was thinking take out some of the hygro and penny-wort so all i have are the val species, java moss, and java fern and sell back the boesemani rainbow fish, and knife fish. Aso was planning on rescaping with maybe one or two pieces of the root like driftwood in the center of the tank and planting the java fern inside the lowly lit crevices. This leaving the back open area planted with the vals and partially on the sides too. All in all the main frontal space will be open and free with tall plantings along the sides and a dense "escape" of mangled driftwood in the center. Nice open, yet interesting layout.

-why? Well i know the archers are "fine" in freshwater being the species they are but they are also found in lowend brackish (I'm curious as to the specific ranges they are found in in their natural habitat) Also this will be sorta a test to see whether they are more outgoing and active in freshwater versus lowend brackish, also health wise too.

-lastly, since only the archer will be in the tank... any opportunities for fish in the same requirement area of 1.003-1.005 sg to coexist with these mighty yet small species of archers? Their not fully grown, the largest being 3" MAYBE 4" at the most. My lfs is awesome at getting in fish that id like mostly because i know the employees well (very lovely pop and ma run store) and ive given them excess plant growth and pointers/help with many of their oddball species. They also have an ACTUAL brackish tank, which is shocking since most stores don't bother with the correct conditions.So ive seen them have orange chromides, and figure eight puffers, both of which seem to be fine at this sg? Not saying id get either... just wondering what you would do?

I think you need some bottom dwellers. At that range, you can also keep dragon gobbies, which are great for a bottom dweller sand sifter but they will destory your plants. You can also keep horse faced loaches which are a little more plant friendly and kribensis does a good job at sand sifting as well.

i have an orange chromide and tried a figure 8 puffer onces. The chromide chases my archers around but does no real damage. He did however kill my smaller golden wonder killifish and might have taken out my kribensis if i had not put in a cave to decided to home.

When i tried a figure 8, he nipped the hell out of my dragon goby fines to the point of not growing back in some spots..so i got rid of him.
Although some chromides and figure 8's can be more peaceful, either way they will work with archers just might pick on some other smaller fish.
Mollys are always great, can add some color and live food to the tank. Since micro doesnt grow very large you might do Ok with swordtails, the pinapple lyretailed males are stunning.

how active are "dragon gobies?

And yeah bottom dwellers would be nice.... if only my archers could tolerate more salt id love to see about the "freshwater morays" but im sure their out of the question... So what i think ill do is some figure eights. If they get nippy with my archers (i doubt it since my archers don't take well to getting picked on in the sense they will teach the bully a lesson) And possibly 3 female and 1 male black molly? or just any kind of molly? and how many figure eights do you think might work (my lfs could take them back for refund if they do get hungry for archers...)

 

[Shovelman]

so im thinking this as final stock

5x toxotes microlepis
1xFigure eight puffer (if hes a bit too nippy or devilish my lfs can take him or i can use my 20g)
5x Black mollies or other random color (fun food source -the young that is- for the archers and puffer)

biggest thing im worried about is the puff getting along. its all a matter of personality with them in my experience..

 

[thereverendturtle]

Yeah some puffers are nasty, others are puppy dogs. Good luck.

 

[Shovelman]

Yeah some puffers are nasty, others are puppy dogs. Good luck.

so seen... well hopefully the figure eight wont be so devilish...lol

 

[Man of fish]

This sounds cool I vote bull shark

 

[Shovelman]

This sounds cool I vote bull shark

>.>

 

[maurizio]

-Basically the tank has root like driftwood on the far right side with thick plantings along the sides.... I'm thinking its a little too clogged up and thus some of the archers are sticking to staying under the "roots" due to the plants taking up some swimming space...

Hello Shovelman,
my archers definitely stick to the "rooted" section of the tank, and only venture in the open half around dinner time. As far as I know, they do prefer shadowy places, so perhaps that's just what yours are doing. As for me, I'm considering to increase the dark areas, possibly adding more fake roots (two mangrove seeds I added a week ago are now starting to germinate; let's see how far I'll be able to extend their roots before getting into trouble! ), and more aerial foliage: after all, my only plant, hornwort, is not doing well at all, so I can easily get rid of it, and make the whole environment darker, hopefully convincing the archers to come out a bit more.

 

[Shovelman]

-Basically the tank has root like driftwood on the far right side with thick plantings along the sides.... I'm thinking its a little too clogged up and thus some of the archers are sticking to staying under the "roots" due to the plants taking up some swimming space...

Hello Shovelman,
my archers definitely stick to the "rooted" section of the tank, and only venture in the open half around dinner time. As far as I know, they do prefer shadowy places, so perhaps that's just what yours are doing. As for me, I'm considering to increase the dark areas, possibly adding more fake roots (two mangrove seeds I added a week ago are now starting to germinate; let's see how far I'll be able to extend their roots before getting into trouble! ), and more aerial foliage: after all, my only plant, hornwort, is not doing well at all, so I can easily get rid of it, and make the whole environment darker, hopefully convincing the archers to come out a bit more.

Awesome! Id love to see some newer pictures of your setup! What salinity do you keep yours at? Have you kept them in completely freshwater? If so have you noticed a difference in behavior between some salt and none?

 

[Shovelman]

well been doing some calling around... and found out then largest size figure eights my lfs can get in are 1" ....which are basically bite size for my archers.....especially if they were just stalking bulky 2-3" mollies.. lol...thinking of sticking freshwater, but with some other semi aggressive Asian fish...like red tailed black sharks or barbs of some sort...

 

[maurizio]

-Basically the tank has root like driftwood on the far right side with thick plantings along the sides.... I'm thinking its a little too clogged up and thus some of the archers are sticking to staying under the "roots" due to the plants taking up some swimming space...

Hello Shovelman,
my archers definitely stick to the "rooted" section of the tank, and only venture in the open half around dinner time. As far as I know, they do prefer shadowy places, so perhaps that's just what yours are doing. As for me, I'm considering to increase the dark areas, possibly adding more fake roots (two mangrove seeds I added a week ago are now starting to germinate; let's see how far I'll be able to extend their roots before getting into trouble! ), and more aerial foliage: after all, my only plant, hornwort, is not doing well at all, so I can easily get rid of it, and make the whole environment darker, hopefully convincing the archers to come out a bit more.

Awesome! Id love to see some newer pictures of your setup! What salinity do you keep yours at? Have you kept them in completely freshwater? If so have you noticed a difference in behavior between some salt and none?

Hello Shovelman,
I believe you are already familiar with my (B)log. I haven't added any picture recently, the layout didn't change a bit, apart from hornwort looking more and more sad...

I got the archers in fresh water, of course, and very slowly (from october to few weeks ago! ) changed to SG 1.002, which is my final target. I cannot really say I've seen any change, except very recently: since I came back from a 2-week travel, where they have been auto-fed, what used to be the local King has become a greyish, dull coward. He spends most of the time hidden among the roots, showing no colours at all, and as soon as I appear, even for feeding, he just disappears, easily missing most of the food. Quite disappointing, but the other two are finally having some life. He used to be most bullying when crckets were fed, keeping the other two well away from the hunting grounds. I'll try ASAP to feed them crickets again, to see how it goes.

How's your great playing ground going? I'd love to see a final picture!

Cheers
Maurizio

 

[Shovelman]

[/quote]

Hello Shovelman,
I believe you are already familiar with my (B)log. I haven't added any picture recently, the layout didn't change a bit, apart from hornwort looking more and more sad...

I got the archers in fresh water, of course, and very slowly (from october to few weeks ago! ) changed to SG 1.002, which is my final target. I cannot really say I've seen any change, except very recently: since I came back from a 2-week travel, where they have been auto-fed, what used to be the local King has become a greyish, dull coward. He spends most of the time hidden among the roots, showing no colours at all, and as soon as I appear, even for feeding, he just disappears, easily missing most of the food. Quite disappointing, but the other two are finally having some life. He used to be most bullying when crckets were fed, keeping the other two well away from the hunting grounds. I'll try ASAP to feed them crickets again, to see how it goes.

How's your great playing ground going? I'd love to see a final picture!

Cheers
Maurizio
[/quote]

Thats pretty much the same in my tank too haha

My dominant archer however turns pitch black and the others their usually bars and dots and bright silver shining bodies. The dominent male also seems to ay low and miss out on food sometimes, but hes doing well as he usually get left over scraps

 

[roddy]

I think you are talking yourself into another tank From my experience I wouldn't try to get the microlepis much above 1.002, mine certainly seem to huff much above this and go dark and go off their food. I'd say it's one of the obvious differences between them and the chatareus who certainly enjoy it a fair bit higher. Another obvious diff between the two is that the chatareus seem to enjoy changes in salinity when doing water changes while the microlepis are inclined to huff if it's not pretty much the same.

I am interested in your dominant archer going dark as I have always found that with any of the species going dark is associated with changes in dominance or water changes being due. So much to learn about the best way to keep our archers and what they are trying to tell us

 

[Shovelman]

I think you are talking yourself into another tank From my experience I wouldn't try to get the microlepis much above 1.002, mine certainly seem to huff much above this and go dark and go off their food. I'd say it's one of the obvious differences between them and the chatareus who certainly enjoy it a fair bit higher. Another obvious diff between the two is that the chatareus seem to enjoy changes in salinity when doing water changes while the microlepis are inclined to huff if it's not pretty much the same.

I am interested in your dominant archer going dark as I have always found that with any of the species going dark is associated with changes in dominance or water changes being due. So much to learn about the best way to keep our archers and what they are trying to tell us

Exactly! I now have 6 congo tetras and 3 kribs in the tank and the archers seem to be more so out and about with the small school of congos... Quite interesting to see that affect...

Ill make a video soon showing the dominant male and his behaviors.