Celebes Or Malayans?

[Birdie]

One lfs near me has (celebes) Normorhamphus halfbeaks ( not sure which ones - in fact I drove myself boss-eyed trying to work it out last week, and I think in retrospect that there was probably more than one type in the tank LOL) and another has dermogenys ( haven't a clue which one - will return later with nmonks' descriptions) . Both are lovely, but I gather that the two would not mix well, so I should choose one or the other.

Would the Dermogenys fare better in my somewhat alkali (pH7.4 ) and hard ( 17-21dH from the tap) water?

What sort of numbers would be happiest? I know they can be feisty, but do they actually do better with somebody to be feisty with? I'm guessing the females at least like some company so, how many somebodies LOL? I am planning on putting them in a rio 180 - ie 100cm x 40 x 50

Would they hold their own against non-nippy barbs or Congo tetras? The tank is fishlessly cycling at the moment, so there isn't anybody in there that can't be altered LOL.

Thank you for any opinions.

 

[nmonks]

One lfs near me has (celebes) Normorhamphus halfbeaks ( not sure which ones - in fact I drove myself boss-eyed trying to work it out last week, and I think in retrospect that there was probably more than one type in the tank LOL) and another has dermogenys ( haven't a clue which one - will return later with nmonks' descriptions) . Both are lovely, but I gather that the two would not mix well, so I should choose one or the other.

All the Nomorhamphus want the same basic thing except N. ebrardtii, which seems to prefer harder, more alkaline water. It is distinctive, having a straight beak and reddish fins, but even if you fail to identify it properly, it will probably adapt fin to even fairly soft water. I have a N. ebrardtii male that has outlined all the others despite being in soft, pH 7.0 water.

Would the Dermogenys fare better in my somewhat alkali (pH7.4 ) and hard ( 17-21dH from the tap) water?

If you have hard water and you want to breed these things, Dermogenys is perhaps the way to go. They are altogether more robust than Nomorhamphus and put up with a wider range of water chemistry. On the other hand they are smaller and, arguably, less attractive. Being livebearers, water chemistry isn't terribly important for breeding, so if you want to go with the Nomorhamphus, by all means do so. You can mix Nomorhamphus and Dermogenys when they're young, but male Nomorhamphus are bullies and will harass the smaller male Dermogenys. On the other hand, small male Dermogenys can get eaten by big female Nomorhamphus! I have had females of the latter get to around 10 cm, so treat them as potential predators.

What sort of numbers would be happiest? I know they can be feisty, but do they actually do better with somebody to be feisty with? I'm guessing the females at least like some company so, how many somebodies LOL? I am planning on putting them in a rio 180 - ie 100cm x 40 x 50

Females couldn't care less. They don't really school as such. The males fight, so get either one or a a whole bunch of males, twos and threes squabble endlessly and painfully. Ideally, get one male to every two or three females, but even if you get a pair, the female is so much bigger than the male she won't get hassled by him.

Would they hold their own against non-nippy barbs or Congo tetras? The tank is fishlessly cycling at the moment, so there isn't anybody in there that can't be altered LOL.

Nomorhamphus should be fine with barbs and tetras. Dermogenys are fine with most fish, but being so much smaller, especially the males, tankmates need to be chosen with care.

Good luck! Neale

 

[Birdie]

Thank you very much, Neale.

I am pretty sure that at least some of the Normorhamphus were ebrardtii, but what really confused me was that some of them had yellow on them - (although I now can't remember exactly where LOL) so I wondered if there were some ravnaki thrown in for good measure . None of them had curled beaks.

Anyway, I remember you have commented elsewhere that the Dermogenys can get quite tame. In your experience are Normohamphus as "friendly" ( yeah, yeah - I do know my fish will never love me ). Did I read somewhere that the females in particular are inquisitive and responsive ( to the hand that feeds them I expect ) or have I completely made that up?