Cardinal And Neon Tetras

[`Peter]

Well just curious on what other keepers prefer to have: neons or cardinals? I've kept neons this past year and I've ended up buying more every few months because they have all been dying off even though i kept them in groups of 6-8. I've found out that neons prefer colder temps under 78 degrees.

So I was thinking of adding cardinals to my planted aquarium with my angels and other small tetras.

I know cardinal tetras are more expensive than neons but do they prefer warmer temps and are they hardier?

 

[TheHolding]

Prefer warmer temps but not hardier!

People have had probs with them, I bought 6 2 months ago and only lost 1.

 

[PDSimon]

cooler temps? Don't think so! more like 24-27 I think

Cardinals are quite sensitive... not hardy fish and prefer lower pH of about 6-6.5. They can be acclimitised though.

 

[nmonks]

Neons and cardinals do indeed have distinct preferences, and shouldn't be mixed. Neons prefer relatively low temperatures, 22-25 C, so they're good choices for aquaria with other species that also like low-end temperatures, e.g., platies, danios, minnows, Corydoras, etc.

Cardinals are hothouse flowers, and need to be kept between 26-30 C. They're better choices for high-end tropical aquaria with species that need real warmth, like angels, gouramis, discus and ram cichlids.

On paper at least neons are more adaptable. They tolerate slightly harder water than cardinals. Cardinals are best kept between 2-10 degrees dH, while neons will be fine up to 15 degrees dH. [Note, the pH itself is relatively unimportant compared to hardness, and beginners often make the mistake of focusing on the pH rather than hardness.] However, farmed neons are plagued with neon tetra disease. If you have soft water, and your aquarium contains species tolerant of fairly high temperatures, then cardinals are a far more reliable investment.

Cheers, Neale

I know cardinal tetras are more expensive than neons but do they prefer warmer temps and are they hardier?

 

[crazychris]

I've never kept cardinals. I bought 8 neons last Oct. and lost 6 of them over the space of about a month, one every few days for no apparent reason, water stats fine and no other fish losses. So had two left and bought 6 more a month ago today and still have all 8 so am hoping for better luck this time. Can't tell my original 2 from the new 6 as they were a similar size! So if I lose any I won't know if they're the new ones or not.

If you have an established group I wouldn't add any new ones. Okay I did as I only had 2 and wanted a small shoal but you run the risk of NTD when you add new ones from your lfs.

My lfs mate was telling me yesterday that he got 150 cardinals in last week and he's been losing quite a few daily all week with no sign of disease so they're not hardier. He said he's never had so many neons die in a batch, only odd ones.

 

[`Peter]

alright thank you very much everybody. I am planning on getting a school of 6-8 cards now because my tank is generally warmer 79-82 degrees and they dont suffer from neon disease which has also plagued some of my neons in the past.

 

[PDSimon]

Neons and cardinals do indeed have distinct preferences, and shouldn't be mixed. Neons prefer relatively low temperatures, 22-25 C, so they're good choices for aquaria with other species that also like low-end temperatures, e.g., platies, danios, minnows, Corydoras, etc.

Cardinals are hothouse flowers, and need to be kept between 26-30 C. They're better choices for high-end tropical aquaria with species that need real warmth, like angels, gouramis, discus and ram cichlids.

On paper at least neons are more adaptable. They tolerate slightly harder water than cardinals. Cardinals are best kept between 2-10 degrees dH, while neons will be fine up to 15 degrees dH. [Note, the pH itself is relatively unimportant compared to hardness, and beginners often make the mistake of focusing on the pH rather than hardness.] However, farmed neons are plagued with neon tetra disease. If you have soft water, and your aquarium contains species tolerant of fairly high temperatures, then cardinals are a far more reliable investment.

Cheers, Neale

I know cardinal tetras are more expensive than neons but do they prefer warmer temps and are they hardier?

Hi Neale, sorry this is a little random...

If you have a GH of 6 would it be acceptable to add cardinal tetras straight into a newly cycled tank?

 

[Assaye]

I have neons that I am being awful to - hard water and a warm tank. I adore them but the more I learn, the less likely I will be to replace them when they pass on. Pity as they are stunning fish and a firm favourite.

 

[nmonks]

If the tank was genuinely cycled, and the tank was fairly large, i.e., 20 gallons or more, then if you added a small group of cardinals, then some more a few weeks later, you should be fine. But cardinals aren't "hardy" so if there's an option to start with another type of fish that like the same kind of water chemistry and temperature, like Sterba's catfish, then that wouldn't be a bad idea.

Cheers, Neale

If you have a GH of 6 would it be acceptable to add cardinal tetras straight into a newly cycled tank?

 

[crazychris]

Just a thought. Never kept any but are black neons any hardier than ordinary neons?

 

[nmonks]

They aren't subject to neon tetra disease, so in that regard yes, they're easier to keep. But like most South American tetras they need soft water; Baensch suggests a maximum hardness of 15 degrees dH, and I'd recommend 10 degrees dH for best results. In Southern England that's going to be a 50/50 mix of tap water with RO or rainwater.

There are some tetras that tolerate hard water extremely well. These include Hyphessobrycon anisitsi, Moenkhausia sanctaefilomenae, Pristella maxillaris and Thayeria boehlkei. But with that said, if you have hard water, you may do better looking at atherines such as Bedotia geayi, Bedotia tricolor, Iriatherina werneri, Melanotaenia praecox, Pseudomugil gertrudae, Pseudomugil signifer, Telmatherina ladigesi and Telmatherina sp. "Suraya". These are all more or less available if you know where to look, and tolerate hard water better than most tetras.

Cheers, Neale

Just a thought. Never kept any but are black neons any hardier than ordinary neons?

 

[crazychris]

Thanks Neale. Strange that black neons don't get NTD! I've found Pristella tetras to be very very hardy and have had 6 ages and not lost one and they've really grown,

 

[nmonks]

Black neons aren't neons. They belong to a different genus, and while members of the same family, that means they're no more closely related than, say, dogs and foxes. Mind you, neon tetra disease may or may not be just one thing, and some argue that "false" neon tetra disease is simply an opportunistic bacterial infection of some sort, rather than a species-specific parasite that only attacks neon tetras.

Yes, Pristella maxillaris is a wonderful fish. Very underrated, but by far the single best tetra species in the hobby for beginners and those who don't want their fishkeeping to be difficult. In the wild it even occurs in slightly brackish water, and in places where the hardness goes up to 35 degrees dH, which is harder than Lake Malawi! These are probably reasons why it does so well in aquaria without any need to fuss over pH and hardness. They're truly fish to buy, add to the tank, and then just enjoy.

I confess, I've never kept neons alive for more than a few months. Total waste of space in my book.

Cheers, Neale

Thanks Neale. Strange that black neons don't get NTD! I've found Pristella tetras to be very very hardy and have had 6 ages and not lost one and they've really grown,

 

[crazychris]

I confess, I've never kept neons alive for more than a few months. Total waste of space in my book.

Well if these 8 neons I've got now don't last long then I won't buy any more as there's no point when there are so many hardier fish. Several people I know have given up on them after several attempts but they'll always be popular.

 

[PDSimon]

If the tank was genuinely cycled, and the tank was fairly large, i.e., 20 gallons or more, then if you added a small group of cardinals, then some more a few weeks later, you should be fine. But cardinals aren't "hardy" so if there's an option to start with another type of fish that like the same kind of water chemistry and temperature, like Sterba's catfish, then that wouldn't be a bad idea.

Cheers, Neale

Thank you very much