Can Pygmy Cories be safe on Eco-Complete

[I_Smell_Fish]

I read that cories need a sand substrate to protect their barbels. I have Eco-Complete substrate. It isn't pure sand...but is it ok for pygmy cories? If so, how many can I have in a 15 gallon tank?

Thank you,
Darrien

 

[DutchMuch]

Pygmy corys? yea its ok, I would say.... well what other inhabitants are there/going to have?

 

[I_Smell_Fish]

There is a male betta, too. There may be 6-7 very small passive fish if I can find a fish that works well with a betta. I've had bettas in community tanks before and they did very well. I don't remember what fish I had with them, it was a while back. In any case, I'm taking my time and searching for the perfect tankmates, other than the pygmies, for my betta, but it will only be 6-7 of some type of small fish (1" or less). I have a nerite snail too.

 

[DutchMuch]

pygmy's should be one of the best tankmates for a betta

 

[Byron]

No on pygmy cories and Eco-Complete. This product (I've held it in my hands) is much too rough. I went with Flourite over EC a few years back, but I had to remove the cories (not pygmies) because the Flourite ripped their mouths open.

The pygmy and similar dwarf species of cory must be over soft sand. Mud would work, but not practicable. Play Sand is ideal as it is the most refined sand. My 10g is full of Corydoras pygmaeus spawning continually, and it has play sand.

As for the Betta, I would not add any other fish with a male Betta. The pygmy cories spend a lot of time off the substrate, and Betta can have different personalities.

Byron.

 

[DutchMuch]

Byron, I must disagree, I myself haven't experienced eco complete, but I hear many people have corydoras sp. with that substrate thriving. Many people. As for the compatibility; I also have to disagree, even I myself have had a male betta with 7 corydoras hasbrosus, ultimate success. It was in a 20 gallon though, heavily planted not sure if that changes anything except hiding spots. Never saw them go above the lower mid level of the tank.

 

[Byron]

Byron, I must disagree, I myself haven't experienced eco complete, but I hear many people have corydoras sp. with that substrate thriving.

How do we know the cories are thriving? We don't.

Sand is essential for all cories if you care about the fish. They take up a mouthful of substrate, looking for bits of food, and expel the sand through their gill slits. They cannot do that with anything but sand. And then there is the sharpness factor. It can damage the gills.

If we want to provide the best habitat for any species, we should aim to provide what they need, not what we would like to see. That is only fair to the fish, and it is responsible.

Byron.

 

[DutchMuch]

How do we know the cories are thriving? We don't

I asked them, obviously

Sand is essential for all cories if you care about the fish

this is true, but it is not essential. Eco complete can come in 0.5mm size sand. https://www.caribsea.com/caribsea_ecocichlid.html
The barbels may also be affected by constant contact with a sharp substrate. They are more likely to thrive if there is an open area of substrate on the bottom of the tank where they can obtain submerged food. Corydoras are generally found in smaller-sized streams, along the margins of larger rivers, in marshes and ponds. They are native to slow-moving and almost still (but seldom stagnant) streams and small rivers of South America where the water is shallow and very clear. Most species are bottom-dwellers, foraging in sand, gravel or detritus. The banks and sides of the streams are covered with a dense growth of plants and this is where the corys are found.

 

[Byron]

I asked them, obviously

this is true, but it is not essential. Eco complete can come in 0.5mm size sand. https://www.caribsea.com/caribsea_ecocichlid.html
The barbels may also be affected by constant contact with a sharp substrate. They are more likely to thrive if there is an open area of substrate on the bottom of the tank where they can obtain submerged food. Corydoras are generally found in smaller-sized streams, along the margins of larger rivers, in marshes and ponds. They are native to slow-moving and almost still (but seldom stagnant) streams and small rivers of South America where the water is shallow and very clear. Most species are bottom-dwellers, foraging in sand, gravel or detritus. The banks and sides of the streams are covered with a dense growth of plants and this is where the corys are found.

Where did this info come from, because there are no species of cory found over gravel substrates that I have ever come across. Sand, mud (detritus) is it.

I have held EC in my hand and it is too rough for pygmy cories. And, you will find every reliable cory source agreeing.

 

[DutchMuch]

to the op: didn't think of it but can you just cap the eco complete with sand?
Byron look through these until you find it:

• Corydoras acrensis Nijssen, 1972 (Acre corydoras)
• Corydoras acutus Cope, 1872 (Black-top corydoras)
• Corydoras adolfoi W. E. Burgess, 1982 (Adolfo's catfish)
• Corydoras aeneus (T. N. Gill, 1858) (Bronze corydoras)
• Corydoras agassizii Steindachner, 1876
• Corydoras albolineatus Knaack, 2004
• Corydoras amandajanea Sands, 1995
• Corydoras amapaensis Nijssen, 1972 (Amapa corydoras)
• Corydoras ambiacus Cope, 1872 (Spotted corydoras)
• Corydoras amphibelus Cope, 1872
• Corydoras apiaka Espíndola, M. R. S. Soares, L. R. Rosa & M. R. Britto, 2014 [11]
• Corydoras approuaguensis Nijssen & Isbrücker, 1983
• Corydoras araguaiaensis Sands, 1990 [12]
• Corydoras arcuatus Elwin, 1938 (Skunk corydoras)
• Corydoras areio Knaack, 2000
• Corydoras armatus (Günther, 1868)
• Corydoras atropersonatus S. H. Weitzman & Nijssen, 1970
• Corydoras aurofrenatus C. H. Eigenmann & C. H. Kennedy, 1903
• Corydoras axelrodi Rössel, 1962 (Pink corydoras)
• Corydoras baderi Geisler, 1969
• Corydoras bicolor Nijssen & Isbrücker, 1967
• Corydoras bifasciatus Nijssen, 1972 (Two-stripe corydoras)
• Corydoras bilineatus Knaack, 2002
• Corydoras blochi Nijssen, 1971 (Spot-back corydoras)
• Corydoras boehlkei Nijssen & Isbrücker, 1982
• Corydoras boesemani Nijssen & Isbrücker, 1967
• Corydoras bondi Gosline, 1940 (Black-stripe corydoras)
• Corydoras breei Isbrücker & Nijssen, 1992
• Corydoras brevirostris Fraser-Brunner, 1947
• Corydoras britskii (Nijssen & Isbrücker, 1983) (Britski's catfish)
• Corydoras brittoi Tencatt & Ohara, 2016 [13]
• Corydoras burgessi H. R. Axelrod, 1987
• Corydoras carlae Nijssen & Isbrücker, 1983
• Corydoras caudimaculatus Rössel, 1961 (Tail-spot corydoras)
• Corydoras cervinus Rössel, 1962
• Corydoras cochui G. S. Myers & S. H. Weitzman, 1954 (Barred-tail corydoras)
• Corydoras concolor S. H. Weitzman, 1961
• Corydoras condiscipulus Nijssen & Isbrücker, 1980
• Corydoras copei Nijssen & Isbrücker, 1986
• Corydoras coppenamensis Nijssen, 1970
• Corydoras coriatae W. E. Burgess, 1997
• Corydoras cortesi D. M. Castro, 1987 [14]
• Corydoras costai Ottoni, Barbosa & Katz, 2016 [15]
• Corydoras crimmeni S. Grant, 1997
• Corydoras cruziensis Knaack, 2002
• Corydoras crypticus Sands, 1995
• Corydoras davidsandsi B. K. Black, 1987 (Sands's corydoras)
• Corydoras delphax Nijssen & Isbrücker, 1983
• Corydoras difluviatilis M. R. Britto & R. M. C. Castro, 2002
• Corydoras diphyes Axenrot & S. O. Kullander, 2003
• Corydoras duplicareus Sands, 1995 (Duplicate corydoras)
• Corydoras ehrhardti Steindachner, 1910
• Corydoras elegans Steindachner, 1876 (Elegant corydoras)
• Corydoras ellisae Gosline, 1940
• Corydoras ephippifer Nijssen, 1972 (Saddle corydoras)
• Corydoras eques Steindachner, 1876
• Corydoras esperanzae D. M. Castro, 1987
• Corydoras evelynae Rössel, 1963
• Corydoras eversi Tencatt & M. R. Britto, 2016 [12]
• Corydoras filamentosus Nijssen & Isbrücker, 1983
• Corydoras flaveolus R. Ihering (pt), 1911
• Corydoras fowleri J. E. Böhlke, 1950
• Corydoras froehlichi Tencatt, M. R. Britto & Pavanelli, 2016 [16]
• Corydoras garbei R. Ihering (pt), 1911
• Corydoras geoffroy Lacépède, 1803
• Corydoras geryi Nijssen & Isbrücker, 1983
• Corydoras gladysae Calviño & F. Alonso, 2010
• Corydoras gomezi D. M. Castro, 1986
• Corydoras gossei Nijssen, 1972 (Pale-spotted corydoras)
• Corydoras gracilis Nijssen & Isbrücker, 1976
• Corydoras griseus Holly, 1940 (Grey corydoras)
• Corydoras gryphus Tencatt, M. R. Britto & Pavanelli, 2014 [17]
• Corydoras guapore Knaack, 1961 [18]
• Corydoras guianensis Nijssen, 1970
• Corydoras habrosus S. H. Weitzman, 1960
• Corydoras haraldschultzi Knaack, 1962 (Mosaic corydoras)
• Corydoras hastatus C. H. Eigenmann & R. S. Eigenmann, 1888 (Dwarf corydoras)
• Corydoras hephaestus Ohara, Tencatt & M. R. Britto, 2016 [19]
• Corydoras heteromorphus Nijssen, 1970
• Corydoras imitator Nijssen & Isbrücker, 1983
• Corydoras incolicana W. E. Burgess, 1993
• Corydoras isbrueckeri Knaack, 2004
• Corydoras julii Steindachner, 1906 (Leopard corydoras)
• Corydoras kanei S. Grant, 1998
• Corydoras knaacki Tencatt & Evers, 2016 [20]
• Corydoras lacerdai Hieronimus, 1995

• Corydoras lacrimostigmata Tencatt, M. R. Britto & Pavanelli, 2014 [21]
• Corydoras lamberti Nijssen & Isbrücker, 1986
• Corydoras latus N. E. Pearson, 1924
• Corydoras leopardus G. S. Myers, 1933
• Corydoras leucomelas C. H. Eigenmann & W. R. Allen, 1942
• Corydoras longipinnis Knaack, 2007
• Corydoras loretoensis Nijssen & Isbrücker, 1986
• Corydoras loxozonus Nijssen & Isbrücker, 1983
• Corydoras lymnades Tencatt, Vera-Alcaraz, M. R. Britto & Pavanelli, 2013 [22]
• Corydoras maculifer Nijssen & Isbrücker, 1971 (Dotted corydoras)
• Corydoras mamore Knaack, 2002
• Corydoras melanistius Regan, 1912 (Blue-spotted corydoras)
• Corydoras melanotaenia Regan, 1912
• Corydoras melini Lönnberg & Rendahl (de), 1930 (Bandit corydoras)
• Corydoras metae C. H. Eigenmann, 1914 (Masked corydoras)
• Corydoras micracanthus Regan, 1912
• Corydoras microcephalus Regan, 1912
• Corydoras multimaculatus Steindachner, 1907
• Corydoras multiradiatus (Orcés-V. (es), 1960) [12]
• Corydoras nanus Nijssen & Isbrücker, 1967 (Little corydoras)
• Corydoras napoensis Nijssen & Isbrücker, 1986
• Corydoras narcissus Nijssen & Isbrücker, 1980
• Corydoras nattereri Steindachner, 1876 (Blue corydoras)
• Corydoras negro Knaack, 2004
• Corydoras nijsseni Sands, 1989 (Nijssen's corydoras)
• Corydoras noelkempffi Knaack, 2004
• Corydoras oiapoquensis Nijssen, 1972
• Corydoras ornatus Nijssen & Isbrücker, 1976
• Corydoras orphnopterus S. H. Weitzman & Nijssen, 1970
• Corydoras ortegai M. R. Britto, F. C. T. Lima & M. H. Hidalgo, 2007
• Corydoras osteocarus J. E. Böhlke, 1951
• Corydoras ourastigma Nijssen, 1972
• Corydoras oxyrhynchus Nijssen & Isbrücker, 1967
• Corydoras paleatus (L. Jenyns, 1842) (Peppered corydoras) [16]
• Corydoras panda Nijssen & Isbrücker, 1971
• Corydoras pantanalensis Knaack, 2001
• Corydoras paragua Knaack, 2004
• Corydoras parallelus W. E. Burgess, 1993
• Corydoras pastazensis S. H. Weitzman, 1963 (Pastaza corydoras)
• Corydoras paucerna Knaack, 2004
• Corydoras pavanelliae Tencatt & Ohara, 2016 [13]
• Corydoras petracinii Calviño & F. Alonso, 2010
• Corydoras pinheiroi Dinkelmeyer, 1995
• Corydoras polystictus Regan, 1912
• Corydoras potaroensis G. S. Myers, 1927
• Corydoras pulcher Isbrücker & Nijssen, 1973 (Pretty corydoras)
• Corydoras punctatus (Bloch, 1794) (Spot-fin corydoras)
• Corydoras pygmaeus Knaack, 1966 (Pygmy corydoras)
• Corydoras rabauti La Monte, 1941 (Rusty corydoras)
• Corydoras reticulatus Fraser-Brunner, 1938 (Reticulated corydoras)
• Corydoras reynoldsi G. S. Myers & S. H. Weitzman, 1960
• Corydoras robineae W. E. Burgess, 1983 (Banner-tail corydoras)
• Corydoras robustus Nijssen & Isbrücker, 1980
• Corydoras sanchesi Nijssen & Isbrücker, 1967
• Corydoras saramaccensis Nijssen, 1970
• Corydoras sarareensis Dinkelmeyer, 1995
• Corydoras schwartzi Rössel, 1963 (Schwartz's catfish)
• Corydoras semiaquilus S. H. Weitzman, 1964
• Corydoras septentrionalis Gosline, 1940
• Corydoras serratus Sands, 1995
• Corydoras seussi Dinkelmeyer, 1996
• Corydoras similis Hieronimus, 1991
• Corydoras simulatus S. H. Weitzman & Nijssen, 1970
• Corydoras sipaliwini Hoedeman, 1965
• Corydoras sodalis Nijssen & Isbrücker, 1986
• Corydoras solox Nijssen & Isbrücker, 1983
• Corydoras spectabilis Knaack, 1999
• Corydoras spilurus Norman, 1926 (Pink-throat corydoras)
• Corydoras splendens (Castelnau, 1855) (Emerald corydoras)
• Corydoras steindachneri Isbrücker & Nijssen, 1973 (Paraná corydoras)
• Corydoras stenocephalus C. H. Eigenmann & W. R. Allen, 1942
• Corydoras sterbai Knaack, 1962 (Sterba's corydoras)
• Corydoras surinamensis Nijssen, 1970
• Corydoras sychri S. H. Weitzman, 1960 (Sychr's catfish)
• Corydoras treitlii Steindachner, 1906 (Long-snout corydoras)
• Corydoras trilineatus Cope, 1872 (Three-stripe corydoras)
• Corydoras tukano M. R. Britto & F. C. T. Lima, 2003
• Corydoras undulatus Regan, 1912
• Corydoras urucu M. R. Britto, Wosiacki & Montag, 2009
• Corydoras virginiae W. E. Burgess, 1993 (Miguelito corydoras)
• Corydoras vittatus Nijssen, 1971
• Corydoras weitzmani Nijssen, 1971 (Two-saddle corydoras)
• Corydoras xinguensis Nijssen, 1972 (Xingu corydoras)
• Corydoras zawadzkii Tencatt & Ohara, 2016 [14]
• Corydoras zygatus C. H. Eigenmann & W. R. Allen, 1942 (Black-band catfish)

 

[Byron]

I'm not wasting my time going through dozens of links to highly-questionable data on Wikipedia. My previous advice comes from Heiko Bleher, W.E. Burgess, David Sands, Ian Fuller, etc, etc, etc.

 

[DutchMuch]

My previous advice comes from Heiko Bleher, W.E. Burgess, David Sands, Ian Fuller, etc, etc, etc.

hey man it takes effort to find answers hidden in the world

 

[Byron]

hey man it takes effort to find answers hidden in the world

Yes, and I have gone to the reliable sources for the answers. The individuals named are authorities in the field. The problem with sites like Wikipedia is there is no way of knowing who contributed the information, thus no way to verify it (unless one already knows of course).

 

[DutchMuch]

that is great
Proud of you that you did some background research
I used Wikipedia to list the names of corys, I don't see how that is so much of false information, a name. Now care is different but I just gave you the list of names from there what do you mean by authorities in the field? I surely haven't been in the hobby as long as you but I have never heard of those names before in my life.
Oh looky: here is their references...
References

1. Jump up ^ Reis, R.E. (1996). "Corydoras". Tree of Life Web Project. CS1 maint: Uses authors parameter (link)
2. ^ Jump up to: a b c d e f g h Axenrot, T.E. & Kullander, S.O. (2003): Corydoras diphyes (Siluriformes: Callichthyidae) and Otocinclus mimulus (Siluriformes: Loricariidae), two new species of catfishes from Paraguay, a case of mimetic association. Ichthyological Exploration of Freshwaters, 14 (3): 249–272.
3. ^ Jump up to: a b Britto, M.R. & Castro, R.M.C. (2002): New Corydoradine Catfish (Siluriformes: Callichthyidae) from the Upper Paraná and São Francisco: The Sister Group of Brochis and Most of Corydoras Species. Copeia, 2002 (4):1006-1015.
4. ^ Jump up to: a b c Froese, Rainer, and Daniel Pauly, eds. (2016). Species of Corydoras in FishBase. January 2016 version.
5. ^ Jump up to: a b c d Britto, M.R. (2003): Phylogeny of the subfamily Corydoradinae Hoedeman, 1952 (Siluriformes: Callichthyidae), with a definition of its genera. Archived September 28, 2007, at the Wayback Machine. Proceedings of the Academy of Natural Sciences of Philadelphia, 153 (1): 119-154.
6. Jump up ^ Evers, H.-G. (2006). "A system called "C-Numbers"". Archived from the original on 2006-06-19. CS1 maint: Uses authors parameter (link)
7. Jump up ^ Froese, Rainer and Pauly, Daniel, eds. (2016). "Aspidoras pauciradiatus" in FishBase. January 2016 version.
8. Jump up ^ Kohda, M., Tanimura, M., Kikue-Nakamura, M. & Yamagishi, S. (1995): Sperm drinking by female catfishes: a novel mode of insemination. Environmental Biology of Fishes, 42 (1): 1–6.
9. Jump up ^ Huysentruyt, F. & Adriaens, D. (2005): Descriptive osteology of Corydoras aeneus (Siluriformes: Callichthyidae). Cybium, 29 (3): 261–273.
10. Jump up ^ Paxton, C.G.M. (1997): Shoaling and activity levels in Corydoras. Journal of Fish Biology, 51 (3): 496–502.
11. Jump up ^ Espíndola, V.C., Spencer, M.R.S., Rocha, L.R. & Britto, M.R. (2014): A new species of Corydoras Lacépède (Siluriformes: Callichtyidae) from the rio Tapajós basin and its phylogenetic implications. Papéis Avulsos de Zoologia, 54 (3): 25-32.
12. ^ Jump up to: a b c Tencatt, L.F.C. & Britto, M.R. (2016): A new Corydoras Lacépède, 1803 (Siluriformes: Callichthyidae) from the rio Araguaia basin, Brazil, with comments about Corydoras araguaiaensis Sands, 1990. Neotropical Ichthyology, 14 (1): e150062.
13. ^ Jump up to: a b Tencatt, L.F.C. & Ohara, W.M. (2016): Two new species of Corydoras Lacépède, 1803 (Siluriformes: Callichthyidae) from the rio Madeira basin, Brazil. Neotropical Ichthyology, 14 (1): e150063.
14. ^ Jump up to: a b Tencatt, L.F.C. & Ohara, W.M. (2016): A new long-snouted species of Corydoras Lacépède, 1803 (Siluriformes: Callichthyidae) from the rio Madeira basin. Zootaxa, 4144 (3): 430–442.
15. Jump up ^ Ottoni, F.P., Barbosa, M.A. & Katz, A.M. (2016): A new Corydoras from floodplain swamps of the São Francisco river basin, northeastern Brazil. Spixiana, 39 (1): 131-140.
16. ^ Jump up to: a b Tencatt, L.F.C., Britto, M.R.d. & Pavanelli, C.S. (2016): Revisionary study of the armored catfish Corydoras paleatus (Jenyns, 1842) (Siluriformes: Callichthyidae) over 180 years after its discovery by Darwin, with description of a new species. Neotropical Ichthyology, 14 (1): e150089.
17. Jump up ^ Tencatt, L.F.C., Britto, M.R. & Pavanelli, C.S. (2014): A new long-finned Corydoras Lacépède, 1803 (Siluriformes: Callichthyidae) from the lower rio Paraná basin, Brazil. Neotropical Ichthyology, 12 (1): 71-79.
18. Jump up ^ Tencatt, L.F.C. & Pavanelli, C.S. (2015): Redescription of Corydoras guapore Knaack, 1961 (Siluriformes: Callichthyidae), a midwater Corydoradinae species from the rio Guaporé basin. Neotropical Ichthyology, 13 (2): 287–296.
19. Jump up ^ Ohara, W.M., Tencatt, L.F.C. & Britto, M.R. (2016): Wrapped in flames: Corydoras hephaestus, a new remarkably colored species from the Rio Madeira basin (Teleostei: Callichthyidae). Zootaxa, 4170 (3): 539–552.
20. Jump up ^ Tencatt, L.F.C. & Evers, H.-G. (2016): A new species of Corydoras Lacépède, 1803 (Siluriformes: Callichthyidae) from the río Madre de Dios basin, Peru. Neotropical Ichthyology, 14 (1): e150019.
21. Jump up ^ Tencatt, L.F.C., Britto, M.R. & Pavanelli, C.S. (2014): A new species of Corydoras Lacépède, 1803 (Siluriformes: Callichthyidae) from the upper rio Paraná basin, Brazil. Neotropical Ichthyology, 12 (1): 89–96.
22. Jump up ^ Tencatt, L.F.C., Vera-Alcaraz, H.S., Britto, M.R. & Pavanelli, C.S. (2013): A new Corydoras Lacépède, 1803 (Siluriformes: Callichthyidae) from the rio São Francisco basin, Brazil. Neotropical Ichthyology, 11 (2): 257–264.

 

[Byron]

DutchMuch...in post #8 you mentioned corys foraging in sand, gravel and detritus. I asked where the gravel part came from as it is simply not accurate. I am not aware of any cories having been found over gravel substrate, though I stand to be corrected but only by reliable sources. I assumed you provided the Wiki links as the "sources."

As for the list of references in post #14, I would be surprised if any of those ichthyologists stated gravel as the substrate where species of Corydoras are found. I know most of their names, I have read some of their papers, and I have corresponded with some of those individuals in my work for Seriously Fish.