Can Fish Feel?

[onemisterchristian]

I was watching some old fear factor episode and there was a tank full of red bellied pacus and the contestants had to capture three of them by biting them with their teeth and then spit them out of the tank. I figured the aspca would be all over something like that

anyways... can the fish feel that, or since they are cold blooded, are they incapable of feeling? just wondering...

 

[Durbkat]

They probably can and they probably got permission to do that.

 

[PlecMama]

That's totally gross, I can't see why they would grant permission for that kind of thing.

I hate the "I'm a celebrity" shows where they have to eat things like live stick insects, yuck, and ouch, whether they can feel or not is not as important as respecting their rights as fellow living creatures. I am not vegetarian, but I despise the injuring or killing of animals for fun.

Since they ate the stickies I guess that is a grey area, but they were not eating them to survive, mearly for a cheap game show, that bugs the heck out of me.

Grrr.

 

[BabySealClubber]

anyways... can the fish feel that, or since they are cold blooded, are they incapable of feeling? just wondering...

This is a pretty deep question. Time for me to hit the pipe again. hehe

Personally, I believe fish do feel, but not to the extent "higher" animals do. Probably two factors are at work: genetic behavioral adaptations, and actual feelings. I dunno. It would be very difficult to explain why my African cichlids behave the way they do if they had no feelings. Every time I walk into the fish room the fish immediately approach me and start "begging." We all know they can feel pain. Perhaps even lust? Some of my fish can't stop doing the nasty. hehe

 

[Fella]

There is no doubt in my mind that fish can feel pain. Why would they rub against rocks when they feel the irritation of a parasite for instance?

 

[Teelie]

It's open to debate if they do. At the moment the majority of scientific knowledge is doubtful, or if they do, it's minimal. As to Fella's comment, you don't have to feel pain to feel irritation or something on you to know it's there. That doesn't prove they feel pain, only they can detect something is there that shouldn't be.

 

[Fella]

It's open to debate if they do. At the moment the majority of scientific knowledge is doubtful, or if they do, it's minimal. As to Fella's comment, you don't have to feel pain to feel irritation or something on you to know it's there. That doesn't prove they feel pain, only they can detect something is there that shouldn't be.

I don't buy that at all. Im pretty sure that there was a scientific paper written recently (last couple of years) that proved that they did feel pain.

 

[prankster705]

I think they feel pain... They have their body and if it gets hurt they probably sense it as they probably do have nerves which detect pain... Not sure if I got it right...

 

[fishing4exotics]

I think fish feel pain. They have to. How else would they sense danger?

I also feel fish have emotional pain. I have kept pairs of breeding fish where one of the pair died. You can see the difference in the fish's appetite and demeanor on some species. I would not have believed it myself had I not witnessed it with several breeding pairs of certain species of fish I keep.

 

[BabySealClubber]

I don't buy that at all. Im pretty sure that there was a scientific paper written recently (last couple of years) that proved that they did feel pain.

Agreed. I am confident the fish sensory nervous system includes pain receptors, like that of humans. If they did not have pain receptors there would be no way for them to detect and respond to injury. Pain is a nervous response that can be explained in terms of receptors, neurotransmitters, neurons, etc., by anyone who's taken a physiology course.

But how about actual emotions? Can fish "feel" happy, fearful, belligerent? I think that's the more interesting question.

 

[Fella]

http/www.liv.ac.uk/pro/news/trouttrauma.htm

A leading animal sciences academic at The University of Liverpool has proved hook, line and sinker that fish feel pain.

Dr Lynne Sneddon undertook the groundbreaking research on rainbow trout as head of a team of scientists from the Roslin Institute and the University of Edinburgh.

A troutThis is the first conclusive evidence indicating that there is pain perception in fish. The research manuscript will be published by the Royal Society.

The investigation into whether there are any nervous system receptors in the head of the fish that respond to damaging stimuli has opened a can of worms for keen anglers who uphold the idea that fish are unable to perceive pain.

Identified through responses to injections of bee venom and acetic acid, the pain receptors found in the trout are the first to be found in fish and have similar properties to those found in amphibians, birds and mammals including humans.

“To demonstrate pain perception it was necessary to prove that the fish’s behaviour was adversely affected by a potentially painful experience and that the behavioural change was not a simple reflex response,” said Dr Sneddon, School of Biological Sciences.

“Our research conclusively demonstrated evidence of pain perception. Previous research carried out on the stingray classification of fish was unable to prove animal pain and we believe that our study may represent an evolutionary divergence between the different families of fish.”

 

[prankster705]

^^^I knew they can feel it... ****Yeah****

 

[BabySealClubber]

http/www.liv.ac.uk/pro/news/trouttrauma.htm

A leading animal sciences academic at The University of Liverpool has proved hook, line and sinker that fish feel pain.

Dr Lynne Sneddon undertook the groundbreaking research on rainbow trout as head of a team of scientists from the Roslin Institute and the University of Edinburgh.

A troutThis is the first conclusive evidence indicating that there is pain perception in fish. The research manuscript will be published by the Royal Society.

The investigation into whether there are any nervous system receptors in the head of the fish that respond to damaging stimuli has opened a can of worms for keen anglers who uphold the idea that fish are unable to perceive pain.

Identified through responses to injections of bee venom and acetic acid, the pain receptors found in the trout are the first to be found in fish and have similar properties to those found in amphibians, birds and mammals including humans.

“To demonstrate pain perception it was necessary to prove that the fish’s behaviour was adversely affected by a potentially painful experience and that the behavioural change was not a simple reflex response,” said Dr Sneddon, School of Biological Sciences.

“Our research conclusively demonstrated evidence of pain perception. Previous research carried out on the stingray classification of fish was unable to prove animal pain and we believe that our study may represent an evolutionary divergence between the different families of fish.”

Nice find!

 

[Teelie]

So they feel pain in the sense that they can detect injury, this still doesn't mean they "feel" pain as in distress or in an emotional sense. Sensing injury is something even the simplest of creatures can do. That's not the kind of feeling pain I think most people are making the distinction with.

There is still a lot about the nervous system and brain in general that we don't understand and some people have a bad tendency to humanize their pets, giving them emotions and personalities far beyond what they're capable of. Despite the above quote, which I would assume was already at least partially obvious, this still doesn't answer how all fish react to a pain sensation beyond the automatic response to avoid it. Some more highly evolved fish do percieve pain but that doesn't mean all of them do.

 

[BabySealClubber]

So they feel pain in the sense that they can detect injury, this still doesn't mean they "feel" pain as in distress or in an emotional sense. Sensing injury is something even the simplest of creatures can do. That's not the kind of feeling pain I think most people are making the distinction with.

There is still a lot about the nervous system and brain in general that we don't understand and some people have a bad tendency to humanize their pets, giving them emotions and personalities far beyond what they're capable of. Despite the above quote, which I would assume was already at least partially obvious, this still doesn't answer how all fish react to a pain sensation beyond the automatic response to avoid it. Some more highly evolved fish do percieve pain but that doesn't mean all of them do.

You are trying to point out the difference between pain as a nervous response, and pain, the emotion (e.g. anguish, heartbreak, etc.). I think this distinction is insightful and should be recognized.

So I ask again: can fish "feel" emotion?