Can dogs be vegetarian (split from thread "Feeding cichlids and other fish meat")

[Colin_T]

If you think you don't find these in vegetable matter, I regret to inform you that you're wrong. What do you think fertiliser is? When farmers spray fields with manure? What do mushrooms grow in?

There are bacteria and micro-organisms all over and inside your body, right now. Whole ecosystems of them. It's a misunderstanding of science turned to fearmongering that seems to be driving your beliefs here.

Most commercially used plant fertilisers are made in factories and are pretty sterile. These man made fertilisers give better results than manures but do not improve the soil structure. So a combination of organic matter to build up the soil and artificial fertilisers are often used in horticulture.

In Australia, manures can only be used on plant crops several months before the crops get sown, but raw manures are not allowed on growing plants. Same deal with herbicides, they can't be used on crops within a certain time of harvesting those crops. Most countries around the world have similar guidelines.

I'm not saying all farmers comply with these laws but most do and the odds of getting poop on your lettuce is low, but it does happen. Some cases have been linked to illegal farming practices but others have been from people working in packing plants who deliberately contaminate food before it's packed.

But you are correct in there being bacteria everywhere. They are literally everywhere and are on people, food, clothes, soil, plants, in the air, everywhere.

 

[Colin_T]

I actually personally see it that dogs and other carnivores should be able to eat meat. Dogs DO eat some fruits and veggies but a dog's diet mainly consists of meat and that should definitely be a main staple in their diet

In addition to the above comments, some fruits and vegetables are poisonous to dogs. Onions and grapes can kill dogs. Some nuts are poisonous to dogs, and so are numerous plants and plant based foods.

If dogs were meant to eat a vegan or even vegetarian diet, they wouldn't get poisoned by various fruits, vegetables, nuts and plants.

 

[Colin_T]

I read years ago that Dogs and Cats never get "cholesterol" They can eat fatty meat every day and never get a heart attack later in life. Maybe true or urban legend?

Dogs and cats do suffer from high cholesterol if fed a bad diet, and they do have heart attacks. Birds can also have heart attacks and some of them don't eat any meat. Stress, high blood pressure, and lack of exercise are major contributing factors for heart attacks.

There's lots of research into cholesterol in humans and animals. Some say it's good, some say it's bad. There is also good and bad cholesterol. The latest research shows that a small amount of bad cholesterol ingested regularly does increase the level of bad cholesterol in your blood, but the body develops a tolerance to it and it doesn't get too high. It also says eggs are good for you and so are coconuts.

The problem with cholesterol is when people and animals ingest too much saturated fat, which is usually bad cholesterol, and they do this regularly, then their blood cholesterol goes up and can increase the risk of them having health issues like a heart attack or stroke. However, stress, lack of exercise and obesity also play a major role in heart attacks and most other health issues.

Regular exercise and eating a varied balanced diet, minimising alcohol consumption, avoid smoking and other carcinogenic substances, and socialising, all improve health and reduce the chances of having a heart attack or developing other health issues.

So eat a varied diet, have a bit of cheese on toast each day with a glass of cow's milk, and have an icecream once in a while, but don't go nuts and eat a gallon of icecream while watching a tv show, and don't go out every night and eat a 5 pound steak with 2 inches of fat around it because that isn't good for you. And do some exercise.

 

[CaptainBarnicles]

Jordan Peterson cured his autoimmune disease by eating beef and greens....and that's it. He was very ill (as was his daughter) and now he's the fittest and healthiest he's ever been (as is his daughter)...so if eating meat is so unhealthy, can you explain how they're thriving?

 

[Colin_T]

Jordan Peterson cured his autoimmune disease by eating beef and greens....and that's it. He was very ill (as was his daughter) and now he's the fittest and healthiest he's ever been (as is his daughter)...so if eating meat is so unhealthy, can you explain how they're thriving?

no idea who that is but maybe he was suffering from malnutrition, just throwing it out there

 

[CaptainBarnicles]

no idea who that is but maybe he was suffering from malnutrition, just throwing it out there

He is a controversial psychology professor, he's become quite famous online now....I don't agree with everything he says but he was struggling with his health before starting this all beef and greens diet. Surely just eating beef and broccoli would make you more malnourished than a balanced all round diet?

 

[GaryE]

First off, food use for humans changes and evolves, just as religions evolve into many splinters with different rules, and tastes change within societies. I grew up eating the best of working class short of money food. That included a lot of things I wouldn't touch now. I'm 6"3 and probably might have been 6"6, but then it would have been harder to find my shoe size, so it works out. Just because you are healthy doesn't mean your diet is ideal.

If you call yourself a member of whatever sect there no way a person 1500 years ago with the same label would have recognized your lifestyle. We roll along, as culture changes. I don't know if you've ever looked at food history in the west, and some of the ancient food practices, menus and recipes, but yech.

I love my dog, but she ain't cultured. Biology determines what she eats, with one wrinkle. She is a domesticated animal, and I feed her. I doubt she would ever have been found galloping across the tundra chasing boiled eggs or fish. She would have eaten eggs when she found them, mice, fish when they were out of water (my mother's dog once caught a leaping fish mid air and swallowed it) and meat. Her digestive tract, her teeth and her habits all say that clearly. If a herd of broccoli migrates across the road here, it's safe from my dog. The deer, with a different biological history, will take it down.

 

[connorlindeman]

If you call yourself a member of whatever sect there no way a person 1500 years ago with the same label would have recognized your lifestyle. We roll along, as culture changes. I don't know if you've ever looked at food history in the west, and some of the ancient food practices, menus and recipes, but yech.

I'll leave it at this.

Sects, ideas, man made rules, may change. But Gods word and his will written in his word does not change.

 

[connorlindeman]

Let me make this clear. If meat was the healthiest thing I would totally feed it to my pet. But if there is a better solution and the dog won't suffer, o will feed it the better solution.

 

[connorlindeman]

Do I doubt that lots of meat was what they ate in the past? No. What I do doubt is weather or not that is a sultry necessary for them to thrive.

 

[jesusjones]

I have no doubt canines could live on some plant based diet. After much study (generations), scientists could throw it together. All the nutrients (in the right ratios), easily digested, low stress long life kinda food. But what that recipe would actually look like and what processing would be needed?? No one truly has the studies or information to %100 know right now. The further you deviate from what is proven or what can clearly be seen in nature the more risk you take IMO.
​

It's called Mammal Meat Allergy (MMA) and is caused by ticks. People can get it as well as dogs and cats. The ticks carry something that gets passed onto the dogs and makes the dog become allergic or intolerant of mammal meats. The dog can still eat bird meat and fish but can't tolerate anything from a cow, sheep, pig, horse, etc.

Very interesting, certainly have been exposed to ticks yearly since owning her. What happened with my dog I can best describe as an allergy, but a mild mostly unnoticeable one that lead to larger issues. As younger pup, she once had severe intestinal distress from raw beef and bread (cleaning out the meat grinder). Later, she started getting large cysts on the rear end. It was not fun for anybody, solution was to hope it stopped or perform an operation that would of left her and our quality of life lower. We tried things for a year or two and cutting all beef products out of her diet finally seems to have stopped it. I'm weary giving her any red meat, everything else is fair game. We hope it never happens again to her!​

 

[Colin_T]

I love my dog, but she ain't cultured. Biology determines what she eats, with one wrinkle. She is a domesticated animal, and I feed her. I doubt she would ever have been found galloping across the tundra chasing boiled eggs or fish. She would have eaten eggs when she found them, mice, fish when they were out of water (my mother's dog once caught a leaping fish mid air and swallowed it) and meat. Her digestive tract, her teeth and her habits all say that clearly. If a herd of broccoli migrates across the road here, it's safe from my dog. The deer, with a different biological history, will take it down.

My dogs would chase and catch fish in the river and ocean, jellyfish as well but they ate the fish and dragged the jellyfish onto the banks and dropped them. After an hour there would be a layer of brown jellyfish on the bank. They could also sniff out eggs and preferred chocolate to boiled but the Kelpie would eat both. And the Kelpie used to steal fish out of buckets when I was catching them for shops. I got in trouble a couple of times for only taking 9 fish into a shop instead of 10. I swore there were 10 in the bucket but only 9 in the bag? They also knew how to hunt and catch birds, cats, rabbits, rats and mice. And they gave snakes and lizards a wide berth.

 

[connorlindeman]

My dogs would chase and catch fish in the river and ocean, jellyfish as well but they ate the fish and dragged the jellyfish onto the banks and dropped them. After an hour there would be a layer of brown jellyfish on the bank. They could also sniff out eggs and preferred chocolate to boiled but the Kelpie would eat both. And the Kelpie used to steal fish out of buckets when I was catching them for shops. I got in trouble a couple of times for only taking 9 fish into a shop instead of 10. I swore there were 10 in the bucket but only 9 in the bag? They also knew how to hunt and catch birds, cats, rabbits, rats and mice. And they gave snakes and lizards a wide berth.

Thats nice. Kelpies are cool looking dogs. How long did you have them?

 

[Colin_T]

Thats nice. Kelpies are cool looking dogs. How long did you have them?

11 and 15 yrs. not long enough unfortunately. they were great mates and we went everywhere together. They even worked out how to get glass sliding doors to open. I took them to the library and told them to wait out the front. I went into the library and after a minute they walked up to the door and it opened, so they came in and waited while I returned my books.

 

[GaryE]

My friend's golden retriever knows how to open the fridge. It chooses cheese, I'm told.