Can dogs be vegetarian (split from thread "Feeding cichlids and other fish meat")

[Rocky998]

Dogs need meat. Humans can eat an all plant diet no problem but imagine this, you get a pet snake known for its carnivorous nature and then decide (sense you don't like eating meat) that it should have tomatoes, lettuce, cucumbers, and other fruits and veggies. That snake would not do well, it is MEANT to eat meat just like dogs are. If someone wants an all vegetarian or vegan family that is totally OK, just choose correctly. Get a turtle that eats only plants. Good option. Or maybe a guinea pig.

But dogs which are closely related to wolves have a prey drive and no matter how you look at it, they are fierce killers in the natural world. They thrive on meat.

 

[JuiceBox52]

I am deffinetly not the type of person to accept anything as gospel just because It comes from higher authority. I do thoughtful research on boths sides of an argument and choose the side with the most convincing proof.


So why keep them on the diet of a herbivore?
I refrain from eating meat, not because of the ethics surrounding the meat industry but because of the unhealthfulness of the meat.
Why would I feed my dog meat if I personally wouldn't eat it? If its bad for my body, its bad for theirs as well. And if there is an alternative route why not take it?

If youre worried about toxins find organic meat from a reputable farm. Not quite ideal meat is still better than no meat for a primarily meat eating animal

 

[Rocky998]

We fed our previous dogs IAMs and they lived 17 and 18. That is EXTREMELY old for a dog

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I am deffinetly not the type of person to accept anything as gospel just because It comes from higher authority. I do thoughtful research on boths sides of an argument and choose the side with the most convincing proof.

I find it hard to believe that both your religious and dietary beliefs just happen to be exactly the ones your parents raised you to believe, but okay...

So why keep them on the diet of a herbivore?
I refrain from eating meat, not because of the ethics surrounding the meat industry but because of the unhealthfulness of the meat.

Proof that having meat in your diet is unhealthy.

Why would I feed my dog meat if I personally wouldn't eat it? If its bad for my body, its bad for theirs as well. And if there is an alternative route why not take it?

Human and canine physiology is not the same. Our dentition is different, our digestive systems are different, and this argument is silly. Ruminants like cows have digestive systems specifically to live solely on grass and vegetative matter, so apply the same logic then. Surely you should only be eating what cows eat! Or hey, polar bears can't live on grass... grass is bad for polar bears, so it must be bad for us, too! We should all be eating the polar bear diet of seal blubber and fish meat. Different animals have different dietary requirements. Comparing one to the other and assuming they should eat the same way - even if we take your assumption about meat being bad for humans as fact, which is a leap - is beyond ridiculous.

 

[Rocky998]

Oh ok... So I can eat dead carcasses on the road... I was wondering! Vultures eat it so I can!

 

[JuiceBox52]

I think that this is a healthy debate. Lets keep things factual with evidence and respectful so the mods dont shut it down

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

We fed our previous dogs IAMs and they lived 17 and 18. That is EXTREMELY old for a dog

Same. The family dogs I had growing up were on a meat-based diet, reached 18 and 17 years respectively. My last dg who passed away last year also meat based diet died at 15, but from a brain tumour, not anything diet related. There are plenty of long lived dogs who lived on table scraps even, let alone carefully nutritionally balanced commercially prepared dog foods. But those table scraps usually included meat and bones... it's only recently that vegetarians and vegans have been trying to force a veggy diet on carnivorous pets.

@connorlindeman so far, your argument has boiled down to "they can survive without it." That's really not a balanced or evidence based argument. You've refused to address that they are primarily carnivorous, and it's deliberately depriving them of a large part of their natural diet. I'd like you to address why you believe they are not carnivorous, or at the least omnivorous. Or if you agree they are, why it's okay to ignore that and change their diet to suit yourself.

 

[Rocky998]

Fish can survive in a smaller tank than really needed but do they thrive... I even question the dry food we feed out dog. But we don't have the funds to give them a super fresh diet.
Looking at those pellets in a bowl really makes me feel horrible but we try to add things to our dog's diet that are fresh. We just can't do it all the time

 

[Rocky998]

Also, @connorlindeman. What fish do you have again? Guaranteed they have a pellet diet which consists of meaty things like insects and shrimp. All kinds of things a certain being says to avoid for us... Unless you feed them plants as well?

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Fish can survive in a smaller tank than really needed but do they thrive... I even question the dry food we feed out dog. But we don't have the funds to give them a super fresh diet.
Looking at those pellets in a bowl really makes me feel horrible but we try to add things to our dog's diet that are fresh. We just can't do it all the time

There are some studies to suggest that raw feeding can lead to a lot of health benefits, it's true. But you're right that it's also incredibly expensive, and also very easy to get it wrong. You need to invest a lot of time into researching nutritional requirements and balancing meals for them, and it's more than many people can take on. I'm with you there! But you can get quality prepared foods for dogs, just needs some research into the best brands and being prepared to spend a bit more.

If you're looking to make it more fun and exciting for Luna, look into how to prepare your own dried liver treats, or tripe! Which is super gross to prepare, but dogs love it Use those treats to do postive, reward based training with her that will be both fun for her, and work out some of that energy. It'll increase your bond with her too, and lead to a better behaved and well-adjusted pet


Teaching her how to follow a scent trail in the garden is a lot of fun too. Plenty of guides online to teach some basic scent training!

 

[Rocky998]

There are some studies to suggest that raw feeding can lead to a lot of health benefits, it's true. But you're right that it's also incredibly expensive, and also very easy to get it wrong. You need to invest a lot of time into researching nutritional requirements and balancing meals for them, and it's more than many people can take on. I'm with you there! But you can get quality prepared foods for dogs, just needs some research into the best brands and being prepared to spend a bit more.

If you're looking to make it more fun and exciting for Luna, look into how to prepare your own dried liver treats, or tripe! Which is super gross to prepare, but dogs love it Use those treats to do postive, reward based training with her that will be both fun for her, and work out some of that energy. It'll increase your bond with her too, and lead to a better behaved and well-adjusted pet


Teaching her how to follow a scent trail in the garden is a lot of fun too. Plenty of guides online to teach some basic scent training!

Yah. I probably wouldn't feed raw if I ever did do a fresh diet. I would most likely lightly cook or boil the meat to help sanitize it and then let it cool to feed.

And I will definitely look in how to make some of those treats!
We have been wanting to make some homemade treats/biscuits for our dog anyway!

That sounds like a ton of fun for a dog! Luna loves to sniff things and she may just do a scent trail type of thing! Thank you for all the cool ideas!

 

[connorlindeman]

I find it hard to believe that both your religious and dietary beliefs just happen to be exactly the ones your parents raised you to believe, but okay...

Did I say that both religious and dietary beliefs are exactly the same? There are certain things that we disagree on. My beliefs are not a carbon copy of my parents.

Proof that having meat in your diet is unhealthy.

I'm glad that you asked

The Consumer Union tested hamburger samples from a cross-section of retail suppliers. In the test, they specifically were able to identify fecal contamination.
The conclusion of this test showed that 73 percent of the samples had a coliform count that was high enough to cause mild sickness.
Knowing that hamburgers constitute more than half of America's beef consumption, it is clearly a significant danger to public health.
I am sure similar tests have been done in Europe with similar results.
They also found that the samples ready to go out to the stores had already begun to putrify.

The GAO's independent check of 68 poultry processing plants found the sanitary conditions unacceptable. Almost half of the results found that they were contaminated by fecal matter, digestive tract contents, bile, and feathers.
Sounds delicious, right?

Cancerous sores are often cut off the carcass, and the rest of the animal is sold for food. Of course, the cancer virus is spread throughout the rest of the body.

Just about all chickens carry leukosis viruses, and chicken farmers run a 6 times more risk of dying from leukemia than nonfarmers.

We can all agree that meat is an excellent medium for growing bacteria, right?
Peutrificatin begins almost immediately in a dead animal and progresses rapidly. There is no way to prevent that.
Once the effects of spoilage become obvious in color, smell, and taste, they pump large amounts of chemicals into the flesh to restore its appearance.

Picture in your mind the combined effects of the animal's waste products trapped in the flesh, the chemical additives of the fast-growing food supply, the filth factor of the packing house, and the various injections given to restore proper appearance. What do you have? A completely unfit source of protein.

 

[CaptainBarnicles]

I'm late to this but good grief, the stupidity we as humans have the right to decide how we live our lives and we have the right to believe whatever we choose to believe....but to completely ignore nature and neglect the needs of an animal that is in our care because of our lifestyle is so wrong.

My Jack Russell will chase and pounce on anything that moves given half a chance and then rip it to shreds. Her prey drive is still sooo strong, as nature intended. But dogs can go without meat? What planet am I on?

Please don't get anymore animals that has a meat based diet, it's not fair on the animal nor is it fair on your family having to go against your beliefs to feed it properly ❤

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

And I will definitely look in how to make some of those treats!
We have been wanting to make some homemade treats/biscuits for our dog anyway!

Awesome!

The best dog training treat even made - Dried liver treats

If you want the highest reward you can as a treat you just found it.

www.bdws.co.uk

Here's what I do for mine, I freeze a good portion since I don't want her to eat a whole pack of liver's worth in a few days, but Luna is much larger and you might be fine going through that many! But there's lots of home-made dog treat options out there, even more if you have a dehydrator (which I don't).

That sounds like a ton of fun for a dog! Luna loves to sniff things and she may just do a scent trail type of thing! Thank you for all the cool ideas!

You're very welcome I've always enjoyed dog training since I was a kid, but since getting my girl nearly ten years ago now (man, time flies way too fast) and her being a super smart spaniel/collie mix, I had to learn even more brain games and mental exercises to help keep a dog engaged and happy, and not destructive, lol. Exercise is a big part of it, but you can exercise them all day, and they'll only get fitter and fitter. They're bred to work all day, and they'll always outpace a human. The key is that mental exercise is as tiring for them as physical exercise, and just as rewarding. Balance the the mental exercise and the physical, and you'll have a happy, engaged and usually obedient dog!

 

[connorlindeman]

Also, @connorlindeman. What fish do you have again? Guaranteed they have a pellet diet which consists of meaty things like insects and shrimp. All kinds of things a certain being says to avoid for us... Unless you feed them plants as well?

Yes i feed them anubias daily
I have:
Neons
Cherry barbs
corys
red eyes
clown killis
cichlids

Yes, I do feed them flakes, bug bites, and brine shrimp. Animals are not called to avoid unclean foods.