Calling Discus Experts!

[Rlon35]

Hey there. I am struggling about what do do with my new, large tank, and I am thinking about trying my hand at saltwater with that one. My other tank is a 55g freshwater planted tank, but something is missing in it and I want a Discus tank to be established in at least one of them. I have read contradicting stories about discus in planted tanks, some claiming they can be kept in heavily planted tanks with just one 50 percent water change per week.

My current species include: 3 small plecos that are stated to be better options than other plecos with discus (clowns and bristlenose); 2 botia striata (said to be compatible); 9 rummy nose tetras, 10 cardinals;,a mating pair of guppies who provide a live food source; 2 siamese algae eaters, 4 blue rams, and about 2 otos. Could I...could I 'pull off' a pair of discus in this tank??? perhaps juveniles?

I got rid of my fast moving, dither fish, and my water quality is good. I have two CO2 fermentation kits, a fluval 305 filter, and I can up the temp in this 55G to about 83-84 without messing with my existing fish and plants. I'd like to keep a pair of brilliant blues or a pair of browns, ideally a male and female. My stocking may be a little high in terms of adding two discus, but I would start tham as juveniles and contemplate adding more filtration. I filter partially with peat, maintaining a 6.5 to 6.7 PH level. I only use reverse osmosis water, which I add stabilizer and ferts to. I am getting an RO unit to make my water changes easier, so I could conceivably manage a 50 percent water change on Saturday AND a 50 percent water change on Sunday. Please tell me how I can make this work...I have frozen beefheart and cichlid delight, as well as frozen brine shrimp and bloodworms. Many of the things discus need are already here, it is just a question of my stocking and water changes IMO. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated, but please be gentle, as I am new to the world of the discus. I was able to keep a sick discus alive for about a month, and considering the shape I got him in, this was an accomplishment.

Final note...don't have the size, but when I am finally able to afford a 300 to 400 gallon tank, I will either set up a shark and ray saltwater tank of a discus and freshwater ray tank. To my surprise many people are successfully keeping discus and rays in larger tanks.

 

[DiscusKeeper403]

If you wanted to add a pair, you would need a proven breeding pair, not just two discus.

If I were you I would add 5 Discus in your 55. You are going to need 5 fish to spread out aggression. Juvy Discus are going to need to be grown out in a bare bottom tank with daily water changes and feedings 3-4 times a day. Because of this, I would buy a group of adults if I were you. A weekly or bi-weekly water change will suffice and feedings should be done 3 times a day. Do not feed too much beef heart or cichlid delight.

 

[Rlon35]

If you wanted to add a pair, you would need a proven breeding pair, not just two discus.

If I were you I would add 5 Discus in your 55. You are going to need 5 fish to spread out aggression. Juvy Discus are going to need to be grown out in a bare bottom tank with daily water changes and feedings 3-4 times a day. Because of this, I would buy a group of adults if I were you. A weekly or bi-weekly water change will suffice and feedings should be done 3 times a day. Do not feed too much beef heart or cichlid delight.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Thank you Lova....the current stock would prevent adding any more than 2. Proven pairs are quite pricey, but I was thinking that this may be what I have to do in the end, to make it work. By 5, I asume youmean five adult discus?!?! I have too many fish in the tank for that, I would think. Two discus puts me within the inches per gallon rule, with my current stock. I like the idea of a proven pair. Would this work in my tank, with my stockage and setup? I relaize a larger group would be ideal, b utthe pair is what I could do. What do you think about this course of action?

 

[mike os]

... and the sae & otto's need to go

 

[petertr]

55G - I wouldn't have ANYTHING other than a couple of BN plec in with your 5 discus - don't buy less than this unless you buy a proven pair. 2 unpaired discus will probably fight and one will end up dead, then the other will be constantly stressed due to being alone.



Also, when you buy them, as what the water stats are that the fish were bread in. Local tap water, or a RO/Tap mix or a RO with treatment. Match this. If they use hard high pH water, don't throw your fish into treated RO water, as they won't like it.

 

[theshadowinc]

a fluval 305 filter

Flow rate of 185gph ~ I use xp3 350gph, you need 4x turnover rate for fish only tank and even worse and hate to pop your bubble but you need 10x turnover in a planted tank! <- Not all needs to be filtration but a very good portion does! Especially with high lighting and co2 injection!

2 siamese algae eaters, 4 blue rams, and about 2 otos,3 small plecos

All these definitly need to go! Depending on the pleco, cause it would need to be bristlenose, if its not it needs to go. Plecos can attach to the discuss and eat there slime coat away! Brisltenose are way better for a planted tank they are the only pleco that does not uproot or eat plants and they don't bother with discuss. I use 2 Albino Bristle nose ones in my planted discuss tank ^^. I don't know about the others but tetris are okay due to the heat they tend to do alright!(pssst dwarf gourmis can be mixed with them as well in a heavily planted tank)

I was able to keep a sick discus alive for about a month, and considering the shape I got him in, this was an accomplishment.

Discuss are beyond the point of intermediate fish keeping. Many many types of sicknesses they can get and you need to be able to know the basics off the back of your hand usually in a hurry! I have found with mine they can addapt to PH swings okay in a planted tank but they don't like KH changes to much! The dispute about planted tanks is cause the science behind it is totally different than a fish only tank!

By 5, I asume youmean five adult discus?!?!

Cause they are best in a group of 5 and yes adults, adults in a planted tank you can get away with 1 water change a week providing your readings are perfect everyday till the water change day!
Edit. Juv require alot more attention to grow to adult size, they require very good water, and also alot of feedings a day 4 times a day! Most reco to grow juvs out in a bare bottom, but if you actually do your research you will find that they don't require a bare bottom to actually grow out its all about the hight of the tank!

Do not feed too much beef heart or cichlid delight.

Beef heart is messy stuff! <- Feeding to much I found I run into issues of water quality I guess mainly the thing is you are keeping water not keeping fish here when you are looking at keeping discus, and supplementing there diet. Mine eat only Frozen foods, Brine Shrimp, Blood Worms and ocassionally TetrisBites.... I did beef heart for a little bit but found its very messy in my planted tank .

Something you should look into is doing alot of research on them before you get them, nothing is worse than spending lots of money on discuss to find 1 month later they die. Don't forget when stocking to remember that alot of food will actually stay on the bottom of the tank and they won't bother trying to pick it up! Something to clean the bottom would help your water quality out, I use Cory's and that works for me!

 

[Jim Curtis]

Rams and Discus do well together.

 

[Rlon35]

Rams and Discus do well together.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

It's funny, but so many people differ on compatable tank mates. Outside of this thread, I had never ever hear that Rams and Discus is a bad mix. I have read that bristlenose, gold nuggets, and clown plecos are all comnpatable with discus, as well as zebra plecs. Many people keep otos and SAEs with discus, so while people here obviously know more than I do, why do you think there is so much contradictory info? Rams and Cardinals are the most commonly campatable mates for the discus that I have read about. And, I would guess (though I don't know for sure) that you'd have much less concerns about verious alage eaters attacking to the discus in a planted tank, where constant food in decaying plant matter, algae, and certain plants are at their disposal. A proven pair is an expensive proposition. I may just go with discus in the new tank (92 gallon), with a sand bottom, clown loaches, and cory catfish, planting occuring in patches. I order 5-6 at once, perhaps also keeping them with soft water dwarf cichlids.

 

[rabbut]

I can tell you from experience that Gold Nugget plecs won't work with Discus, they latch onto them for the slime coat. They are Byransistrus, so contarary to popular belief aren't an algea eater. Their diet is mainly of meaty foods... Both Ottos and SAE have been known to latch, but it very much depends on fish personality and the other food sources available.

What you have to remember at all times, is that you are dealing with a living creature. Any animal has an unpredictable side. They cannot read your text book and hence don't know how they are supposed to behave This is why you get contradictory information, some people have had good mixes fail, and poor mixes work because fish haven't behaved in the way most people would predict. This "unexpected" behavior is often coined as "rogue fish". It does not help that you are dealing with a species many consider "advanced", i.e. Discus, each with an individual personality, that inevitably leads to many different ways of keeping and hence different mixings working and increased numbers of fish that don't live by the rules of being a Discus fish

If you add corries to a Discus tank, choose the corries carefully. Remember that most corries come from cooler areas and Discus come from warm ones. In the 30c heat of a Discus tank, many species just melt. Turn the heat down and your Discus suddenly become parasite magnets... Sterbai, Metea, Adolfi and Julii corries are all know to work. Of those, I have had success with Adolfi and Metea. Avoid Peppers, Bronze, and Albieno (and most other corries for that matter) though, as they will just melt in the heat

I think you just have to listen to what everyone has to say about each species mixing with Discus. Understand that all tankmates are potentially a risk and try to calculate the risk using the input of opinions you get. If almost everyone says it's safe, it probibly is (assuming they actually keep Discus this is, and have personally tryed the mixing in question). If a lot say it won't work, you have a high ammount of risk involved with trying it and you need a back-up plan in place "just in case". If almost everyone says it won't work, it's probibly best not to try it

Also, there is a mistake in your title. You ask for exerts. By deffinition, and expert knows everthing there is to know about the topic in question. This means they have stopped learning. If you stop learning in a hobby that moves as fast as this, your advice becomes out of date and useless... Anybody in this hobby calling themselves an expert have idetifyed themselves to you as useless simply by calling themselves one Just my 2p worth It should be noted though that thus far all the people replying to yor thread have not said themselves to be an expert. Most of the advice thus far has been good IMO, though I diden't read Shadow's reply if I'm being honest...

All the best
Rabbut

 

[Jim Curtis]

The only thing I will keep with my discus anymore, and this is my personal preference, is Rams and Cardinals. I'm sure you can get away with plenty of other fish as tankmates, but none are worth the risks to me. To each his own tho. I've never heard of clown loaches and discus before tho, that's another one of many I would never personally consider.

 

[Rlon35]

I can tell you from experience that Gold Nugget plecs won't work with Discus, they latch onto them for the slime coat. They are Byransistrus, so contarary to popular belief aren't an algea eater. Their diet is mainly of meaty foods... Both Ottos and SAE have been known to latch, but it very much depends on fish personality and the other food sources available.

What you have to remember at all times, is that you are dealing with a living creature. Any animal has an unpredictable side. They cannot read your text book and hence don't know how they are supposed to behave This is why you get contradictory information, some people have had good mixes fail, and poor mixes work because fish haven't behaved in the way most people would predict. This "unexpected" behavior is often coined as "rogue fish". It does not help that you are dealing with a species many consider "advanced", i.e. Discus, each with an individual personality, that inevitably leads to many different ways of keeping and hence different mixings working and increased numbers of fish that don't live by the rules of being a Discus fish

If you add corries to a Discus tank, choose the corries carefully. Remember that most corries come from cooler areas and Discus come from warm ones. In the 30c heat of a Discus tank, many species just melt. Turn the heat down and your Discus suddenly become parasite magnets... Sterbai, Metea, Adolfi and Julii corries are all know to work. Of those, I have had success with Adolfi and Metea. Avoid Peppers, Bronze, and Albieno (and most other corries for that matter) though, as they will just melt in the heat

I think you just have to listen to what everyone has to say about each species mixing with Discus. Understand that all tankmates are potentially a risk and try to calculate the risk using the input of opinions you get. If almost everyone says it's safe, it probibly is (assuming they actually keep Discus this is, and have personally tryed the mixing in question). If a lot say it won't work, you have a high ammount of risk involved with trying it and you need a back-up plan in place "just in case". If almost everyone says it won't work, it's probibly best not to try it

Also, there is a mistake in your title. You ask for exerts. By deffinition, and expert knows everthing there is to know about the topic in question. This means they have stopped learning. If you stop learning in a hobby that moves as fast as this, your advice becomes out of date and useless... Anybody in this hobby calling themselves an expert have idetifyed themselves to you as useless simply by calling themselves one Just my 2p worth It should be noted though that thus far all the people replying to yor thread have not said themselves to be an expert. Most of the advice thus far has been good IMO, though I diden't read Shadow's reply if I'm being honest...

All the best
Rabbut

^^^^^^^^^^

Wow....awesome post, thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.

 

[theshadowinc]

I can tell you from experience that Gold Nugget plecs won't work with Discus, they latch onto them for the slime coat. They are Byransistrus, so contarary to popular belief aren't an algea eater. Their diet is mainly of meaty foods... Both Ottos and SAE have been known to latch, but it very much depends on fish personality and the other food sources available.

I have 2 SAE's one I have an issue latching to the discuss, the other is in qaurtine tank I also ran into an issue in the start with them, they would latch for food till it actually realized the pattern for feeding. Now it comes up to the top of the tank for feeding time just like the discus. Now it don't bother with the discus, but at first I did have an issue with the SAE's. As far as otto's I don't know from experience just been told many times from all sorts of people they don't work so I stay away from them!

If you add corries to a Discus tank, choose the corries carefully.

I use panda's, I find they work pretty good with temps, but I guess each to there own.

Most of the advice thus far has been good IMO, though I diden't read Shadow's reply if I'm being honest...

~ did i make the reply to long, I do know i put some good pointers in there to help someone out ^^, especially about beefheart feeding thats what caused a huge ammo spike in my tank the second day i had them >< <-- One thing for sure I was glad I had a spare tank setup and ready in case! Its like my filter took one hell of a hit! I had to borrow media from a breeder to help it back out again! <- Definitly not an expert but I guess I am still active I learned that beefheart when to much in the tank can actually kill a filter system in a hurry and don't matter if its planted or not!

It does not help that you are dealing with a species many consider "advanced", i.e. Discus, each with an individual personality, that inevitably leads to many different ways of keeping and hence different mixings working and increased numbers of fish that don't live by the rules of being a Discus fish

The main thing here is experience and willing to keep learning! Guess so far on this forum I am the first to successfully hold 3 in a tank with no issues as of yet! I probably won't run into issues until they decide to pair off! I think 1 female and 2 males I have. Many people have been known to break rules, after all most are just typed from some scientist that might be outdated by experience from most by now! The best tank is the bohom tank, that huge thing houses discus, angles, cardinals, and I think cory's not sure on that. It definitly breaks most rules of fish keeping! 1 Water change a week 50%

This "unexpected" behavior is often coined as "rogue fish".

Can you define this for me plz, I have always known rogue fish to be a bass of some sort but am not sure now.

 

[Jim Curtis]

"The main thing here is experience and willing to keep learning! Guess so far on this forum I am the first to successfully hold 3 in a tank with no issues as of yet! I probably won't run into issues until they decide to pair off! I think 1 female and 2 males I have. Many people have been known to break rules, after all most are just typed from some scientist that might be outdated by experience from most by now! The best tank is the bohom tank, that huge thing houses discus, angles, cardinals, and I think cory's not sure on that. It definitly breaks most rules of fish keeping! 1 Water change a week 50% "

Um, not to be rude, but, I think you have to wait longer than 5 days before you can say you've successfully broke the rules. Let us know how things look in 6 months.

 

[theshadowinc]

"The main thing here is experience and willing to keep learning! Guess so far on this forum I am the first to successfully hold 3 in a tank with no issues as of yet! I probably won't run into issues until they decide to pair off! I think 1 female and 2 males I have. Many people have been known to break rules, after all most are just typed from some scientist that might be outdated by experience from most by now! The best tank is the bohom tank, that huge thing houses discus, angles, cardinals, and I think cory's not sure on that. It definitly breaks most rules of fish keeping! 1 Water change a week 50% "

Um, not to be rude, but, I think you have to wait longer than 5 days before you can say you've successfully broke the rules. Let us know how things look in 6 months.

[URL="http/"http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=275413""]http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=275413[/URL]
~ been 17 days ~
Six months for sure can let everyone know as I have a journal in my signature about the planted tank! Also mentioned as of yet, and waiting for them to pair off is the time I will run into issues

Also mentioned so far, and also mentioned about the bohom tank that breaks alot of rules forget how big it was 8x4x4 if i remember right its been around for awhile now!

 

[DiscusKeeper403]

"The main thing here is experience and willing to keep learning! Guess so far on this forum I am the first to successfully hold 3 in a tank with no issues as of yet! I probably won't run into issues until they decide to pair off! I think 1 female and 2 males I have. Many people have been known to break rules, after all most are just typed from some scientist that might be outdated by experience from most by now! The best tank is the bohom tank, that huge thing houses discus, angles, cardinals, and I think cory's not sure on that. It definitly breaks most rules of fish keeping! 1 Water change a week 50% "

Um, not to be rude, but, I think you have to wait longer than 5 days before you can say you've successfully broke the rules. Let us know how things look in 6 months.

<a href="http/"http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=275413"" target="_blank"><a href="http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=275413" target="_blank">http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=275413</a></a>
~ been 17 days ~
Six months for sure can let everyone know as I have a journal in my signature about the planted tank! Also mentioned as of yet, and waiting for them to pair off is the time I will run into issues

Also mentioned so far, and also mentioned about the bohom tank that breaks alot of rules forget how big it was 8x4x4 if i remember right its been around for awhile now!

Sorry, but I still have to agree and say 17 days isn't enough to say you have successfully kept them. You have barley even kept them after all.

And do you mean the behemoth tank??? This tank has much more then just Discus, Angles and Cardinals.

http/img404.imageshack.us/img404/4327/di...ltummix1wl0.jpg