Calfo Overflow Problem?

[craigybaby37]

got my new tank 99% done and gave it a water test tonight with tap water and the system works ok but there are a few little problems if that makes sense.

1: I have got water noise comming from both the open stand pipe and siphon stand pipe (if you are formiulliar with the calfo system you should understand me)

I think some of the noise may be com ming from the open stand pipe due it the emergency pipe being joined into it with a T fitting please tell me if you think this is a problem and i will adjust the pipework to suit,

2: when i tinker with the siphon stand pipe i cannot get a completely silent siphon going ( this pipe just goes straight to the sump on its own) and when i get a siphon of some kind going it fills the sump up faster than what the return pump can put the water back in the tank???

The top of all 3 stand pipes are capped and the open standpipe has a 6mm or 1/4 inch airline fitting tapped into it, however i dont think any air is getting sucked through it due to the stand pipe being joined the the energency pipe which it is gettin the air from???

 

[BigC]

I have never tried this but I have heard tell of folks using plastic link chains hanging in the pipes to reduce noise levels.
Regards
BigC

 

[craigybaby37]

thing is this whole CALFO design is done so it runs completely silent as ive read of other forums.

i can draw a picture of the setup as it is at the moment if that will help anyone out on what my problem may be.

I was thinking about the problem i was having about creating a siphon in the siphon stand pipe can i do this by shutting off that pipe by the ball valve then opening it suddenly so that the water rushes down the pipe and the adjust the ball valve to stop it letting to much water uot and filling the sump up quicker than it can put the water back in the tank

 

[craigybaby37]

Here is a very rough picture of the pipework layout as if you was looking straight at the back of the tank.

I think my problem with the open standpipe lies with it being joined to the emergency pipe and it getting air through the upturned elbow in the overflow section of the display tank and not through the airtube fixed into the cap.

 

[SkiFletch]

Oh ok I got this. First, your siphon pipe is probably too big and thus capable of handling the entire flow of the return pump by itself. Closing it off a litle with ball valve control will work wonders here. Then, yes, its likely that your "emergency" pipe is providing all the air for that center drain. If you want to use the 3-drain system (siphon, ventilated, and emergency) you have to have 3 seperate drain lines to the sump. Teeing like you're doing isn't a good idea... Remove the Tee or just plug the "emergency" which is redundant because it sounds like either your siphon, or ventilated drain could handle the full volume from the sump pump.

 

[craigybaby37]

Thanks Ski your help is much appreciated.

The design i followed from another website was using 43mm or 1.5" pipe to got the sump however ime using 32mm or 1.25" but i can understand how the system can be dead silent going from a 22mm overflow pipe to 1.25" as surely the water will not fill the pipe enough to stop the splashing but prehaps ime just being weird and thinking about it to much.

I guess ive got another job on my hands tonight then of removing the T from the open standpipe and making it 1 straight run of pipe to the sump then making the emergency run to the sump alone aswell. sounds more than it is but shouldnt yake me long.

I dont think ill risk plugging the emergency pipe as its a major part of the design if there is ever a blockage in one of the other pipes.

 

[craigybaby37]

Please can someone help me out here ime having a nightmare wih my clafo overflow and its driving me mad and i cant seem to figure out what the problem is.

I changed the plumbing around so that all 3 overflows now have there own pipework to the sump as before i had the emergency fitted into the open standtpipe via a T fitting but that is no more.

There is still lots of noise comming from both the siphon pipe and the open pipe which i cannot understand as these systems are ment to me whisper silent and i have tried adjusting the siphon pipe ball valve to get a siphon going but i just cannot seem to achieve it so ime pretty sure its just overflowing down the pipe rather than being sucked down by a siphon.

and secondly on the open standpipe there is an airline fitting fitted to a service cap with a small length of 6mm airline which is ment to suck the air into the pipe however i cant feel any air being sucked through the pipe

And finally the airline thats attached to the open standpipe is ment to turn the standpipe into a siphon standpipe if the water level starts to raise but i have tested this and it does not work.

Any help will be much appreciated thanks

 

[SkiFletch]

Hummm, well a standpipe that doesn't breathe will surely be a noisey standpipe. Without pics of your setup (I realize what you're designing after) this is tough but here goes.

When you shut the pump off, water drains into your sump until the level in the display tank reaches the top of the box yes? If you then start it back up, water fills the box but the siphon pipe should NOT work. As soon as the water gets to the level of the "open" standpipe as you label it, the pipe should start draining and air should come down with it (you'll know this cause air and water will come out the bottom of the pipe but the elbow inside the box will remain underwater). Then if the flowrate is too high for the open standpipe to easily handle (and it should be), the water level should continue to raise until you get to your emergency standpipe which should cope with the rest of the flow

Is that the order of events that happens? If not, where does it trip up?

 

[craigybaby37]

Ok the series of events are pretty much as you say but the open stand pipe seems to be able to handle the whole flow as it never seems to rise above the emergency so that doesnt get used.

When i submerge the airline on the open standpipe it should turn it into a siphon standpipe to handle more flow but this doesnt happen, however if i suck on the airline then quickly place it into the water the pipe immediatly goes into one seriously strong siphon but i cant understand why it doesnt do it when i place it under water???

If i can figure out a way to get to the ballvalve on the open standpipe shall i try closing it a little and see what happens???

Or shall i increase the turnover of water by fitting a more powerfull pump to the return from the sump???

 

[SkiFletch]

Hummm, wish I was there looking at it and hearing it, would make this so much easier.

Ok so when you have no siphon flow, only flow through the open standpipe, does that make any noise? And if so, what kind of noise? Is it a rushing air sound, a whistling sound, or more of a sucking/gulping sound?

 

[craigybaby37]

Well its definatly not an air sucking noise or whistling neither a gulping noise.

Best way to describe it is as if you were pouring water down the pipe through the service cap and its splashing inside the pipe

If i place the lid to my flake food over the open standpipe the noise is pretty much silent just a faint water running noise can be heard from the siphon pipe when you put ur ear next to it.

Just had an idea ill make a quick video on my phone and post the link to it so you can hear the noise yourself.

 

[SkiFletch]

Oh oh oh, you're sucking too much air down the open standpipe. Go to your local HD/Lowes and pickup a quick connect ball valve that will fit on your red airline there. Then put the ball valve almost right on top of the fitting that enters the standpipe, as close as possible. Use that to control the flow of air

 

[craigybaby37]

ok thanks for that advice ill give it a go and see what happens.

What i cant understand is if its sucking to much air surely it should still start a siphon when submerged under water and if i place my finger over the end of the airline i cant feel any sucking what so ever???

 

[SkiFletch]

ok thanks for that advice ill give it a go and see what happens.

What i cant understand is if its sucking to much air surely it should still start a siphon when submerged under water and if i place my finger over the end of the airline i cant feel any sucking what so ever???

Humm, could be you have a bad fitting then and it's not really sealed into the pipe?

 

[craigybaby37]

Ive just had a fort where i know my problem lays.......i think i have the pipes for both the open and siphon standpipe going to far under the water in the sump.

There is only about a 1" gap between the end of the pipe and the glass bottom of the sump i bet this isnt helping matters at all.

here is a little sketch of what i meen just to make things clearer

so if my thinking is correct all the pips that is submerged under water is full of water and makes it a real effort for the water comming down the pipe to get into the sump if you get me???