caffeine thought of the day... thinking about plant nutrition...

[Magnum Man]

... and not in the way most would think... so there are several classes of fish that eat plants, algae, and biofilm or aufwucks... I have a hillstream tank, which are primarily aufwucks eaters ( aufwucks, is generally considered algae and all the critters that live in it ) but I also have silver dollars, who are more built to eat plants, and don't have the specialized mouths to scrape algae... I'm watching my school of dollars devouring an over grown pothos root ball in their tank... that rootball was the reason I moved the dollars to this tank... they still like to eat algae cookies, which also contain fish meal, and other nutrients

that food, is not available in the wild, which got me thinking, different plants are going to have different nutrient values... I'm wondering what it would take to just feed them plants, and get them to thrive without processed foods???

the same goes for my hillstream's, they also eat both algae cookies, as well as bug bites, and another fish based food, in a way, I'm trying to simulate the nutrition of live aufwucks... but I'm sure in the same way as bigger plants, there are different algae's, with different nutritional values... in that tank, I'm encouraging algae growth , and I have 3 or 4 different algae varieties available to the fish...

it would be interesting to know the specifics of the plant, and algae life in the natural areas these different fish live, not so much to biotope, but at least to match plants of similar nutritional values...

BTW... I have several tanks with over grown root balls, so if the dollars get these all trimmed back to the hang on pots they are growing out of, I'll have to trim up the vines to move them, but I'll start rotating in peace lilies that will be easier to move after their hair cuts...

thoughts???

 

[Magnum Man]

in reality, I'm sure we will always have to supplement the algae to equal the nutrition of true aufwucks... but watching this school of dollars devouring these pothos roots, makes me think if offered a few of the right plants, if they would thrive without processed food???

back in ancient times I raised a pacu to a large size... ( very large, I custom built a 220 gallon tank just for him ) I was reading what their diet was, and I got him trained to eat carrots... I began by dicing them up the size of the pellets I was feeding him, and once he was eating those, I began to cut up the carrots into bigger pieces , until I finally was able to add whole carrots to his tank... I also did the same with the small "pop corn" shrimp, and soon he was eating whole shrimp... most of my friend's got the biggest kick out of watching him eat carrots, as you could hear him crunching and biting the carrot, through the aquarium. and over time there was a transformation in the fish... typically on a large pacu, their color washes out, but on mine, he got a bright red belly and lots of interesting colors on his body...

I would suspect I could do the same with the dollars, by dicing the carrots up small... they may never graduate to eating whole carrots, as the pacu was 10 times bigger, but I may be able to add baby carrots at some point???

 

[Rusty_Shackleford]

I don't think we'll ever know the nutritional value of pothos or many other plants. As hobbyists we can't even get accurate water temperatures of the waters from which our fish originated.

What about carrot slivers? Like grated carrot. Or perhaps a carrot stick on a clip so the silver dollars can graze at their leisure. There are many greens to try. Broccoli? Spinach? Kale?

 

[GaryE]

I feed a lot of zucchini, cut into coins and frozen, which does what parboiling does and makes coin edible. I've used pesticide free romaine and spinach, also frozen for easy access. I grow zucchinis in summer and feed them in coin by coin all winter. I have also cheated and used dulse, a snack food dried purple seaweed that they all love. You don't need to buy processed fish foods.

Aufwuchs are another issue though. I got to watch mollies feeding on an underwater cliff of aufwuchs in a Mexican cenote. The water was crystal clear and the sunlight blindingly intense. You could never do that in a tank. Plus they were clearly picking creatures out of the 2 or 3 inch thick algae, and you would need an enormous sunlit set up to get even close.

My tiny zucchini garden does what I need. I grow lettuces and Swish chard as well, and all are readily accepted while allowing me to control the pesticide issue/danger.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Allen Repashy describes his Soilent Green as as "Aufwuchs Gel Premix." I do use this product and gave for many years, Here is the ingredient list (bold/green added by me to highlight the algae):

INGREDIENTS: Spirulina Algae, Algae Meal (Chlorella), Krill Meal, Pea Protein Isolate, Black Soldier Fly Larvae Meal, Rice Protein Concentrate, Fish Meal, Alfalfa Leaf Meal, Dried Brewer’s Yeast, Coconut Meal, Stabilized Rice Bran, Flax Seed Meal, Schizochytrium Algae, Dried Seaweed Meal, Lecithin, Locust Bean Gum, Citric Acid, Taurine, Stinging Nettle, Garlic, Dried Kelp, Dried Watermelon, RoseHips, Hibiscus Flower, Marigold Flower, Paprika, Turmeric, Salt, Calcium Propionate and Potassium Sorbate (as preservatives), Magnesium Amino Acid Chelate, Zinc Methionine Hydroxy Analogue Chelate, Manganese Methionine Hydroxy Analogue Chelate, Copper Methionine Hydroxy Analogue Chelate. Vitamins: (Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D Supplement, Calcium L-Ascorbyl-2-Monophosphate, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Beta Carotene, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex).


I use the above food in two ways. One is as the sole ingredient. I feed this to shrimp, ancistrus, and any other bottom fish that wants to munch on it. I also use it mixed with Bottom Scratcher and with Spawn & Grow. I make an 80%/20% mix with the Soilent Green as the 20%. I found this is an effective way to get veggies and algae to omnivores.

 

[Magnum Man]

I see lap feed it every couple weeks