Butis Butis Tankmates?

[TammyLiz]

I'm in the process of planning a new planted tank, including deciding what inhabitants it will house. I saw a butis butis yesterday and what can I say? He did a little dance for me and I fell in love.

But they are predatory and I've read they can eat fish up to their own size! Since they are not all the time out in the open there would need to be some other inhabitants to create interest so what would that be?

Tank size has not been decided yet. Wanting to do a low-mid light planted w/o co2. I wouldn't mind going brackish for this guy if it would work out to balance the tank with some other fish.

Thanks,

Tammy

EDIT: Specifically, what about fig 8 puff as an eventual tankmate? Mono sebae, or would they eventually need too much salt for the plants?

 

[nmonks]

Not sure Butis butis can actually eat anything its own size. That sounds like a bit of hyperbole. They do have very large mouths though, and can easily swallow things like guppies that are small and narrow-bodied.

On the other hand they ignore anything too large, or too spiny, to be swallowed whole. Sailfin mollies, knight gobies, orange chromides, etc. will work well with them.

They aren't fussy about salinity, but SG 1.005 would be a good minimum value. That will place some restrictions on how you plant the aquarium. In all honesty, plastic plants are probably the way to go. Like most other predators, they don't like full light, so giving them a nice tangle of silk plants plus some ceramic ornaments or wood will help them settle in quickly. If you add a 3-D background of the sort made by Juwel and other companies, these fish will cling to that, changing their colours to blend in. They look great when kept this way.

I saw some of these gobies the other day at Maidenhead Aquatics, Peterborough (see below). Definitely handsome, impressive fish.

Cheers, Neale

 

[TammyLiz]

I stopped by the LFS again today and put it on hold. Its not a definite and I can still pass but it makes it much less likely that they'll sell it.

That is a nice picture! Did you take it at the shop just the other day when you said you saw some? They only have one at the shop here and it is not so colorful. It doesn't have the red at all. Likely a female? It was labeled "upside-down goby" but when I went on a hunt for an ID everything that came up under that name was way off! This is where I eventually found a pic to ID it:
[URL="http/members.optusnet.com.au/aquatichabitats/Flyriver.htm"]http/members.optusnet.com.au/aquatichabitats/Flyriver.htm[/URL]
It looks exactly like that but darker, especially when it is near the side wall of the tank since the sides are painted black.

Soo...about salinity. It is now in completely fresh with ph 7.2 and it looks to be in perfect health, actively moving around, posing upside down and right side up and changing colors as it moves around the tank. The guy said it has been there for about a week. So that fits right in with what you're saying about them not being picky. The fig 8s in the same store that are in full freshwater are looking terrible. Since you say the Butis butis should be at least 1.005 I'm thinking what about full marine? I have been getting into marine and maybe I could have a macro algae tank or something....I really like growing plants and don't want to go plastic! Plus I love the nutrient export. Would it be best not to stretch it too high with the salinity, though, for this particular fish?

My daughter really wants a puffer. Would it be too nippy for the gudgeon and force it to find a less visible place to lurk?

Thanks so much, Neale. As soon as I had a brackish question I knew where to go.

 

[nmonks]

That is a nice picture! Did you take it at the shop just the other day when you said you saw some?

Yep.

They only have one at the shop here and it is not so colorful. It doesn't have the red at all. Likely a female?

Likely just a juvenile. The one in the photo was pretty much full size. To my eye, they look better the bigger they get. That said, there are several Butis species, and all are capable of colour changes, depending on mood.

Soo...about salinity. It is now in completely fresh with ph 7.2 and it looks to be in perfect health, actively moving around, posing upside down and right side up and changing colors as it moves around the tank.

Sounds about right. They are fine in freshwater for months, maybe longer. But really do best in brackish or marine.

Since you say the Butis butis should be at least 1.005 I'm thinking what about full marine?

Yes, they're apparently fine in salt water, though ecologically they're more characteristic of mangroves and estuaries.

My daughter really wants a puffer. Would it be too nippy for the gudgeon and force it to find a less visible place to lurk?

A figure-8 or GSP wouldn't be my idea of a perfect combo, no. If anything, a marine puffer such as Arothron hispidus would make more sense, or perhaps one of the sharpnose puffers (Canthigaster spp.) assuming the specimens were of equivalent size. A filefish might be a better bet, even.

Cheers, Neale

 

[TammyLiz]

Thats a lot to think about.

 

[TammyLiz]

Well I went and picked it up today. I was surprised it was still there considering how neat I thought it was, I figured someone else would want it, too. Especially since they have never been available around here before and there was only 1! It may be that people just weren't pretty much turning upside down to look into the back of gourami tank behind the intake for a fish that was matching his color to the surroundings.

Was there a reason other than just preference that you wouldn't have put a gsp in with him, nmonks? I got one for free last week and I'm thinking about trying them together. The easiest thing to set up right now is a 20 gallon and I am doing that right now and transferring a mature filter from another tank for the B. butis. It would be great if the 1 1/2 inch gsp would do OK with him and if you're not 100% sure of disaster I might try it just for the sake of trying. I also got a sailfin molly for distraction. It would be nice if it worked out. And yes, I understand the tank is not large enough for them long term. I may put them into a spare 55.

 

[TammyLiz]

I have a small reef that only has hermits and snails, no fish yet. Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate all 0, and I've had it since June (7 months). Its due for a water change and I'm thinking about using the water from that in my brackish tank. Good idea or do you think it's too depleted in minerals? The coral sucks up the calcium in particular and its probably low in magnesium and a lot of the others as well. I'm not sure if this is a big deal for the fish or not. Is it?

 

[TammyLiz]

I am seriously impressed with this fish. My husband and daughter are pretty neutral towards it but I love it. I am really looking forward to seeing it mature. I overestimated its size. I put a tape measure up to the tank while it was at the front glass tonight and it is 2.5 inches SL and just under 3 inches TL. I have fed brine shrimp and frozen bloodworm and it definitely prefers the brine shrimp. It snapped at the bloodworms a little but didn't seem very interested, probably because they don't swim.

I am a little concerned that it is spending most of its time resting on the bottom and not along the rocks or (plastic) leaves in the tank. I would even have guessed it would choose the filter intake before those things since it is black and in a shaded area. It does sit out on the white sand a lot and doesn't hover like it did when I first saw it at the store. It looks like it needs some serious fattening up. What should I do about that? Brine shrimp don't seem like they'll be enough to help it gain weight fast enough to make me happy so the disinterest in the bloodworms does concern me.

I have raised salinity but not a significant amount yet. I don't want to stress the biofilter too much. I have had enough bad experiences with having to do daily water changes to keep ammonia down that I don't take any risks with that type of thing unless I have to.

And a picture is worth 1000 words:

 

[TammyLiz]

Well, I figured out why it is not acting as well as I would like. I tested all params last night and apparently the biofilter has been compromised. Ammonia was just under 1ppm. I am so disappointed! I had transferred the main filter from a mature 10 gallon tank that I have had set up and stable for a year, so I did not expect this. We will see how this pans out. Unfortunately I do not have another extra filter so I'll just be doing water changes to keep it down. I guess something must have contaminated the tank because the filter came straight off one tank and onto the other and was not dry at all. The pH was slightly but not significantly different so I don't know.

I hope its just a quick spike and I'm just worried about nothing. It seems that the bioload is about the same but maybe I'm wrong.

 

[nmonks]

Don't worry too much about the ammonia. Salt (as in NaCl) reduces the toxicity of ammonia significantly, so assuming you do some water changes and keep the tank nicely aerated, you should be okay. Sleeper gobies are generally pretty hardy animals (the intertidal species, anyway).

Obviously lay off the feeding, and only offer food every 2-3 days until things settle down. The very best food for these sorts of sleepers are small live foods like river shrimp and earthworms, even livebearer fry. Stick in some mollies, and let them produce live food for you! (I suspect my bumblebee gobies live mostly off baby cherry shrimps and Limia fry, since I've seen hardly any of either since installing those gobies.)

But failing that I find mysis shrimps (frozen) and small pieces of chopped prawn are generally good value. If you can get prawn eggs, they're even better. Unshelled prawns have them at certain times of the year (at least they do in Waitrose here in Berko) and that's about the cheapest way to get any fish fattened up. They must smell really good, because most fish go wild about them.

"Old" water from a reef tank is fine in brackish water tanks. Mix with 1-3 parts tap water depending on whether you're after 25-50% salinity. No real need even to use a hydrometer; any variations will be entirely within the tolerance of the fish, and the bacteria once settled down. I doubt the calcium carbonate content in the "old" water from the reef tank will be critically low. Test it if you want, and if need be add some home-made Malawi salt mix (cheap and easy).

Nice photo, by the way.

Cheers, Neale

 

[TammyLiz]

Thanks Neale. I did not know that about the ammonia and the salt. Its relieving!

I'll look up that Malawi salt mix. Since I don't keep african cichlids I haven't heard of that.

Thanks again for all the helpful advice. And for the compliment about the picture. The fish holding still like that right at the front glass helps a lot.

 

[TammyLiz]

I'm worried.

The water tests are doing a little better. Ammonia went down to about 0.5ppm (before water change tonight), and nitrate is showing up a little now. I never saw a nitrite reading at all. So I suppose it has not really been a full blown cycle and is almost over. The one issue with keeping ammonia down is that my tap water has .25ppm of ammonia so it is hard to keep it below that in an uncycled tank.

However, the gudgeon is not looking well today. His tummy is very pink and although I'd expect him to be light since he is sitting on light colored surfaces, he is whiter than usual. Activity is still the same and he was snapping at the water droplets running down the outside of the glass when I did a water change, but still I'm worried about that pink belly.

BTW I never did add the puffer. It is still in a tank by itself in the other room. There is a single small male molly with the gudgeon that I bought at the same time and I was planning on adding a female later.

I hope I'm worried over nothing. I've gotten a little attached to the fish--more so than usual. If anyone has any suggestions please share.

 

[TammyLiz]

So I thought I'd update in case anyone cares.

The water quality has evened out in the tank now. Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 5 pH 7. Salinity I'm not sure but still pretty low. I'll be adding more salt and raising the pH with some crushed coral if the salt doesn't do it. I didn't want to raise the pH too much while there was still ammonia present.

The fish is not taking frozen foods. He snaps at them and then spits them out. I don't have any brine shrimp right now but I'm going to get some more. Then I guess I'll have to figure out how to get him to eat frozen foods. I've tried bloodworms and mysis shrimp and I offer one or the other each evening. I have been leaving them in there and they are gone by morning, so I'm not sure if he is going to the bottom and eating them at night, or if the molly is eating them, or if they're getting kicked into some area where I am not seeing them. Despite the upturned mouth I do know he can eat off the bottom since I've seen him eat brine shrimp that are laying on the bottom. He turns his head sideways and snaps them up through the side of his mouth.

 

[nmonks]

Pop into the garden and have a rummage about. Earthworms and woodlice are both useful foods for fish, and completely safe, assuming your garden isn't sprayed with nasty chemicals.

Once the fish is settled down and associates you with food, getting it to take frozen food should be easier. A bit of hunger won't do any harm, either.

Cheers, Neale

The fish is not taking frozen foods. He snaps at them and then spits them out.

 

[charlie4486]

very cool fish, can't wait to see some updated pics as it matures.