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Discussion in 'Planted Chit Chat' started by AmtotheBurr, Sep 8, 2015.

  1. AmtotheBurr

    AmtotheBurr Member

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    [​IMG]

    Why does my plant look like this now? It was lush and green now it's getting brown spots and not doing hot. I realized there are no fish in the tank yet so it's probably not getting any waste or anything so I sprinkled some fish flakes in today to add something to the water. It may not do anything but it seemed worth a shot. I specifically got plants that said they didn't need co2 or fertilizer. I'm really just wanting them to help get the ammonia better in my tank but if I could not kill it, that would be great. Thanks for any advice.
     
  2. Goggy

    Goggy Member

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    There we go, thanks petco employees
    Anyway, hows the temp of the tank? plants need a low temp to survive, under 80 farenheit is best for plants
    My aquascaped zebra pleco tank has a co2 generator and a fan to control the temp
     
  3. AmtotheBurr

    AmtotheBurr Member

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    76 - 78ish I believe. I'll test my water today and see if it's budged the ammonia any
     
  4. Byron

    Byron Member

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    It is perfectly true that you do not need to be adding diffused CO2, depending a bit on the plant species and other factors like lighting intensity and nutrients.  However, nutrients in general may be lacking, and your observation of no fish providing some of these is accurate.  I have a 20g tank that I use only to quarantine new fish acquisitions, and it is planted.  It can sit without fish for months, but I do notice an improvement in the plants' appearance when fish are present.  Some of this is natural CO2, but more is the nitrogen (ammonia/ammonium) which plants need.  Some will occur from organics in the substrate, but the main source is obviously fish.
     
    Having said that, it is still possible to have decent plants, so now we must look into the lighting.  If you could detail your light--including type, wattage, duration, spectrum...anything you can--it will help.
     
    Another factor is that plants do take a time to adjust to differing parameters and environments, over usually a period of a couple weeks or more.
     
    The GH of your source water is another factor, as this is the prime source of the "hard" minerals like calcium, magnesium, and a few others.  If you could give me the GH (and pH while we're at it).  Temperature is fine at mid to high 70's.
     
    Last, what plant species do you have?  The large plant in the photo appears to be a sword, Echinodorus species, maybe E. osiris?  It is in bad shape, no denying, but we should be able to save it.  However, this is a genus of plants that are quite heavy feeders, and adding a comprehensive liquid plant fertilizer is almost a necessity.
     
    Byron.
     
  5. Ch4rlie

    Ch4rlie Unlicensed Moderating Moderator
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    Plants, they can be fickle things :lol:
     
    Well, plants do require nutrients and light at the least in order to survive fairly healthily.
     
    Personally I add fertilizer to my tanks and my plants are thriving, yet some folks do not add ferts and their plants do well.
     
    Tap water plays a part in this, when doing water changes, the fresh water add vital minerals that the fish and plants need, as well as nitrate in some cases, i get between 30 - 40 ppm straight out of my tap, this provides some nutirents for my plants, i know this because usually by the end of the week its pretty rare for me to see anything above 5ppm of nitrate.
    Bearing in mind the ammonis excreted from fish will trun to nitrate at the end of the bacteria process so these plants are comsuming at the very least 30ppm nitrate as well as me adding ferts every other day.
     
    As Byron mentions, this does depend on the species of plants you have, some are easier to look after than others.
     
  6. AmtotheBurr

    AmtotheBurr Member

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    This one was called a "wonder bulb". I can get the ph tomorrow but the other figure isn't provided by my water company in reports, I've checked.
    There are two regular bulbs in the tank, probably 20 watt each and I keep the lights on for atleast 12 hours. The tank is nice and bright but they are not speciality bulbs by any means.
    As soon as I get the ammonia under control, my fish will be moved back over.
    I've also avoided water changes because I don't want to slow down the cycling process.
    Aponogeton plant, possibly Aponogeton crispus. Was called wonder bulb in the store
     
  7. Goggy

    Goggy Member

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  8. Byron

    Byron Member

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    I would question that that plant is Aponogeton crispus.  I had thought possibly an Aponogeton initially, but I can see no sign of the tuber (bulb) at the base, plus the wavy edge of the leaves is not crispus, and third the leaf veining is Echinodorus not Aponogeton.  Having said that, the plant is in rough shape...but I still doubt the genus.
     
    What do you mean by "getting the ammonia under control?"  This may be significant, as ammonia is highly toxic to plants as well as fish, depending upon the level.
     
    Light...by "regular bulbs," do you mean ordinary household incandescent bulbs?  Or CFL (the spiral compact fluorescent)?  And to put this in perspective, what is the tank size, the volume and dimensions?  "Bright" light to you or me may not be bright to plants.  Of it may be too bright, this can kill plants too.
     
    To your tap water, do you have any idea if it is hard, moderately hard, soft, very soft?  I'm really not thinking this is the issue, but it is one factor that may or may not be significant here.
     
    Byron.
     
  9. StevenF

    StevenF Member

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    Getting the GH and KH values from your water company won't help much.  Water companies may get their water from multiple source and the water hardness may change from month to month. Also Keep in mind the aquarium is an enclosed environment.  The water chemistry in the aquarium will change as the plant removes minerals from the water.  You really should get a test kit that will measure Hardness (GH) and total Alkalinity (KH).  Tetra Easy strips will measure GH, KH, PH,and nitrogen (Nitrate / Nitrite)
     
     elements such as calcium, magnesium, iron, zinc, boron, sulfur, manganese, and molybdenum are known as micro nutrients because the plants don't need a lot  of these and becasue there is not much dissolved in the water.  Micro nutrients are among the first to be depleted from the water.  another class of elements are known as Macro nutrients such as potassium, phosphorous, and nitrogen.   Plants usually need a lot of these nutrients and once you have fish you should have enough of these to keep your plant alive.   
     
    To restore your plant to health you should use a fertilizer with macro and micro nutrients such as Seachem flourish.   Once you stock you can probably reduce or maybe elliminate the amount of fertilizer needed.   I personally use Aqueon micro fertilizer and have been recently adding Potassium Nitrate due to algae issues I have. When Using micro nutrients only I typically never see Ammonia or nitrite.   Nitrates occasionally show up but only at very low levels
     
  10. AmtotheBurr

    AmtotheBurr Member

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    The bulb part was planted under the gravel. That's how I was told to do it by the fish store. The plant leaves rotted (all but 4 that looked newer) so I pulled off the dead leaves and replanted it. There is a fish in their now, so I hope the plants will do better with having waste or whatnot from the fish. If the plant dies it isn't a huge deal, I just purposely picked ones that said they didn't need co2 and ferts.
     
  11. Byron

    Byron Member

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    OK, that is an Aponogeton then.  These plants (most species) require a rest period when they lose their leaves.  Just leave the bulb/roots, and new leaves will appear after a couple months.  I have Aponogeton in my 90g and this is a regular annual cycle.  They do need nutrients however, as what is in the bulb can be readily used up.  I have found that root tabs are ideal, one placed next to the bulb/roots, replaced according to directions depending which brand.  I am using Seachem's Flourish Tabs, they are replaced every 3 months.  Also, a liquid fertilizer would probably be a good idea, such as Flourish Comprehensive Supplement [look for this exact name, they make several products under the "Flourish"], and it is concentrated and contains all nutrients necessary.  Aquatic plants take up nutrients via the roots and leaves, so these two provide what is necessary.
     
  12. Ltygress

    Ltygress Member

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    MOST plants need low temps. Rotala Wallichii actually prefers temps above 80. It is actually going to be my own go-to species for my L-46 breeding tank.
     
  13. AmtotheBurr

    AmtotheBurr Member

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    All is well now. That plant looked like it fully died, but new sprouts were barely visible so I pulled off the dead and replanted it. Now it's bright green and has several new leaves that are getting pretty big. :)
     

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