Broken My Fishless Cycle?!

[Gr44]

Hi,

I've been doing a fishless cycle for like 3-4 months... finally it was finished! I had a pH crash on the 9th so I did a large water change - 80% ish - added ammonia... that cleared quickly.

I had more time the next evening (10th) so I thought... time to make the final take changes before getting the fish (planned to be on the 12th).

I did the following;

• Turned filter/heater off
• Removed all the water
• Placed filter in a bucket of (treated) water and turned on with a few drops of ammonia to keep it going.
• Emptied the tank out of everything and gave it a good clean... got rid of the gravel and replaced with (washed) sand.
• Replaced the heater and old filter.
• Also added a new filter... which is like 4x bigger (Fluval U3).
• Replaced with (treated) water.

Now, all that seems fine... except for the fact I just checked my water which is now.... 17hours after I added the ammonia and it's 2ppm Ammonia and 1 or 5ppm Nitrite...

I was planning to pick up my fish on the way home from work tomorrow and it looks like this may have thrown a rather giant spanner in the works... I've been cycling for so long I'd be gutted if I have to wait even longer... I've had so many false 'about to pick my fish up' days it's just bonkers...

I only have my limited newbie knowledge to throw in the mix so I'm wondering if any of the below have affected the lack of processing;

• Heater was turned up a littler higher than normal ~30.5-31*c rather than 28-29*c
• The larger filter is some how disrupting the flow on the smaller one so the water isn't being processed properly?
• The smaller filter normally agiates the air into the tank but it slipped down a little after I filled it up so wasn't bringing air into the tank.

Just so you know the old filter really is much, much smaller - it's a 'AquaOne 101F' - new one is a Fluval U3.

Thoughts/Comments/Suggestions?

Thanks,

Sean

 

[plecostomus-mad]

when you replaced the filter, did you replace the filter media too?

 

[Gr44]

Nope, I did nothing to the filter last night other than remove it and place in the bucket... and then put back in - treated water all the way along. Bucket was probably a few *C hotter mind you... that doesn't kill the bacteria does it?

I did clean the filter the night before, in used tank water - just took the media out and a quick stir around in the bucket of old water then replaced it. But it seemed to cycle okay last night

The new filter I added (U3) obviously has new media in it though.

You can see how my tank is set out now... is there anything stupid I've done?! sorry for the water marks and such on the glass lol.. was a bit of a rush job last night, the camera makes it look worse!! will clean it in a minute

Thanks for the reply!

 

[plecostomus-mad]

Bucket was probably a few *C hotter mind you... that doesn't kill the bacteria does it?



The new filter I added (U3) obviously has new media in it though.

i know bacteria grows slower in warmer water, warmer water also does not have as much oxidation left to its self, air stone would be needed. how much hotter was it? rough guess.lol

did you put any of the older medium in the new filter?

 

[Gr44]

To be honest it was a bit of a frantic rush at 10pm... didn't finish until gone 12am and I was playing with so many differant lots of water in 3 differant buckets from differant sources etc...!

I'm not sure how much hotter but a good few *c.. mayve 35-37*c? I don't know...! I cooled it down with cold water straight away so I doubt it's the cause... but I've no idea what's going on!

I didn't put any of the old media in the new filter, but the old filter is running along side the old one as we speak - I plan to leave them both in there for a good few months before removing the old one. I suppose I could cut up the old media and put all of that in the new filter and be done with it, that might actually help as it has higher flow rate etc?

 

[plecostomus-mad]

I'm not sure how much hotter but a good few *c.. mayve 35-37*c? I don't know...! I cooled it down with cold water straight away so I doubt it's the cause... but I've no idea what's going on!

I didn't put any of the old media in the new filter, but the old filter is running along side the old one as we speak - I plan to leave them both in there for a good few months before removing the old one. I suppose I could cut up the old media and put all of that in the new filter and be done with it, that might actually help as it has higher flow rate etc?

i wouldn't have thought those temps would kill the bacteria

if 2 filters are running, thats 2 lots of bacteria that need feeding basicly, and defiantly ALOT more aeration. id get some air stones pronto.

now as for putting old media in a new filter and running the two together, im not sure to be honest. someone might join the discussion and help this
topic out. i would have thought, however, that if you were to put all of the old media in the new filter, it would be the same as it being in the old filter? post that question on the tropical discussion board as im not 100% sure.

hope ive been of some help

 

[Gr44]

Hm,

Maybe the answer really is that simple then... just the fact I have 2 filters both fighting for the same water flow and ammonia within it. Obviously the new filter doesn't (currently) have any bacteria in so it won't be using any more oxygen yet I don't suppose.

I'll ask re; the filters though!

Thanks VM for all your help pleco-mad!

Real question is though... do I still get these fish tomorrow?! I'll check the stats after 24 hours and see where they are.

Thanks,

Sean

 

[plecostomus-mad]

Hm,



Thanks VM for all your help pleco-mad!

Real question is though... do I still get these fish tomorrow?! I'll check the stats after 24 hours and see where they are.

Thanks,

Sean

thats quite alright

and i would probably say, hold off a little longer, make sure the water stats are stable again.otherwise it may end up being a fish in cycle and maybe starting over again. i think there is a good chance you can save this cycle i would test more frequently than in 24 hours time, then act accordingly

best of luck

mark

 

[grumpysteve]

taking everything out and cleaning it was probably the biggest factor. at the end of a fishless cycle all you really want to do is replace enough water to get the nitrate levels down. any amount of cleaning, even if done carefully in old tank water, will kill off some of the bacteria. bacteria grows on just about all the solid surfaces in a tank, so replacing the gravel alone would've had a substantial effect. adding another filter wouldn't effect anything, its just somewhere else for the bacteria to colonize, and with 2 filters you should easily be getting enough surface disruption for the water to absorb oxygen. i suspect if you start again from scratch you'll find the tank will cycle again in no time because theres already bacteria there, you just need to bulk it up a bit

 

[plecostomus-mad]

taking everything out and cleaning it was probably the biggest factor. at the end of a fishless cycle all you really want to do is replace enough water to get the nitrate levels down. any amount of cleaning, even if done carefully in old tank water, will kill off some of the bacteria. bacteria grows on just about all the solid surfaces in a tank, so replacing the gravel alone would've had a substantial effect. adding another filter wouldn't effect anything, its just somewhere else for the bacteria to colonize, and with 2 filters you should easily be getting enough surface disruption for the water to absorb oxygen. i suspect if you start again from scratch you'll find the tank will cycle again in no time because theres already bacteria there, you just need to bulk it up a bit

i was led to understand that the majority of bacteria lived in the filter. maybe some on the substrate etc but mainly in the filter?

 

[Gr44]

Yeah I don't think cleaning the filter would have a massive effect, nore replacing the substrate as very little bacteria lives in that.

When I say test in 24 hours I meant 24 hours after I added the ammonia - which is about 12AM... maybe 12:30AM I forget! in a few hours anyway before I go to bed!

I was so looking forward to getting some fish tomorrow... I'm not sure I can resist

 

[plecostomus-mad]

Yeah I don't think cleaning the filter would have a massive effect, nore replacing the substrate as very little bacteria lives in that.



I was so looking forward to getting some fish tomorrow... I'm not sure I can resist

^ i agree

nooo! lol, dont do it, these last few months may well have been wasted by getting fish before the end of the cycle. a fish in cycle, like what im doing, is much harder to control the water stats, they fluctuate so much!im expecting a spike fairly soon and i hope i catch it in time

i can tell you have been patient, by doing a fish-less cycle, but just a little more is needed you will soon be able to buy fish!!

if you DO decide to buy fish, be prepared to start a fish in cycle bud, and trust me, it sucks! also is harm full to the fish.they get ammonia poisoning and nitrate poisoning, over and over again leading to a short life in the long run

i would also check the water again tonight and w/c if required

 

[grumpysteve]

the majority of the bacteria colonize in the filter, because the media has such a vast surface area. you'd be surprised how much bacteria colonize gravel, decor etc. it would have had a massive effect. if i'm wrong maybe you could explain what did happen?

be patient and wait until the tank has cycled, it'll be worth it.

 

[Gr44]

Damnit....

I can't argue with that logic as much as I want to!

I won't need to do a W/C, I have crazy hard water lol.

You know the annoying thing? The cycle was 100% completed like 3-4 weeks ago but I went on holiday for a week (AGAIN) which meant I had to wait another 3-4 weeks to get it back to normal. I waited to change the gravel/sand because I was told it would have no effect

Started my cycle on the 24th of August!

Oh well... talk about a let down !

Steve,

I don't know enough to give a good objective response to that, but it isn't the common consensus on these forums from what I've seen.

If I'd have known that I would have changed my substrate before I went on holiday and it would have made almost no differance at all. This is the third time I've 'completed' my cycle now... every time I've got to the end something goes wrong I just feel really... disapointed

~Sean

 

[grumpysteve]

hindsight's a *****! you're nearly there though, it wont take more than a few days with any luck. a bit of a moody way around it is wait until the next dose of ammonia and nitrite has cleared then stock the tank slowly (as the bacteria will be able to cope with the bioload of an understocked tank. fishless cycling is so you can fully stock the tank in one go). i fishlessly cycled my tank this way knowing i was going to be stocking it slowly. generally fully stocking the tank in one go only really needs to be done with aggressive fish as they need to establish a pecking order, and find territories. it also depends on where you got your info about fishless cycles, many people agree that after the first dose of ammonia you should only use half the recommended dose. is the tank planted or are you planning on planting it? live plants help a lot with consuming ammonia and nitrate too