Breeding Fish. What a surprise

[itiwhetu]

Well I started a thread on Friday about breeding fish only 18 posts and 5 of those were mine.

This must be what is the biggest difference between the Aquarists of today and 30 years ago. 30 years ago on a site like this ( If there was one ) everyone would have been breeding fish. That is what most people kept fish for was to breed them and have the joy of watching a tank full of baby Lemon Tetras swimming around or the interaction between the parents and young of a Cichlid family.

Forget the equipment and the advancements in care. This is where the biggest shift has happened everyone is just happy with there tanks and going down to the LFS to replenish them. It seems to me that the local community of fish keepers has gone and been replaced by the nett.

I now wonder how many of you regularly communicate with other fish keepers in your area or do you do all of your communication here on TFF.

 

[itiwhetu]

I will add an observation:
30-40 years we all knew how to get tanks up and running, and were more interested in how to get the little guys to spawn, now all that is discussed is cycling. It is a monumental shift in where the hobby is going.

 

[Ellie Potts]

As a 17-year-old who is heavily involved in this hobby, I can't speak towards what it used to be, but I do feel I know where it's going. I've found a lot of negativity about this throughout the forum, as many think the internet and accessibility are ruining the hobby--that perhaps aquarists are a dying breed. In a sense, they're right. We are less driven to get to know fishkeepers in the area because we have this on our phones. It's easier to know how much work fishkeeping is beforehand, so fewer people get into the hobby. Also, why join clubs when there's eBay? Is breeding really the most fascinating project when people online are creating advanced paludariums? But those in my circle are still completely engaged in the wonders of reproduction, plant life, and biotopes, just in a totally different way.

The internet is obviously changing the hobby; we have access to so much information and thousands of stories. This may make us less appreciative of the actual keeping and individual fish as we get distracted by all of the wonderful science! Even the 'party' kids at my school love hearing about my tanks; not just "oh this fish is colorful" but the nitrogen cycle, equipment, parameters, etc. I feel this growth in understanding is making us better fish keepers and broadening the lense of the hobby. Breeding hasn't gotten less interesting to my generation, but the excess of information has made every other aspect of the hobby more interesting. Almost every tank I dream of has already been done and I can find it within minutes online. A lot fewer fish die through this research and a lot more breeding projects are successful without ever having to ask for help. I think I could be content keeping half of what I currently do if I could put all of that time just into reading articles and stories.

Maybe I'm not a great example, as I live in the countryside, but your wonders are somewhat correct. I very rarely interact with fishkeepers in my community. I occasionally meet hobbyists at aquariums, and some at my "local" (an hour away) fish store, but I regularly interact with none of them. To many, this is abhorrent and a massive downgrade to the community, but, as a young woman in a hobby of mainly adult men, being able to connect with other fish keepers via fish forums isn't only convenient, it feels safer. To control what people know about me and what they don't, keeping in mind that I can prevent them from ever seeing me in person, gives me a sense of safety (rational or not). This forum is safer and provides so much more insight than what the maybe 3 hobbyists in my city have to say.

Although you never insinuated that the hobby was going downhill, I feel the need to defend it. As the "future" that many long-timers complain about on this forum, is our future. I have faith we'll go in the right direction, even if it isn't what people imagined 30 years ago.

 

[anewbie]

Well we could talk about the internet 30 years ago and the quality of the people on it. I remember early 2000 and the quality of users took a suddenly drop as undergrads started getting access in-mass. So the question is their a correlation between the quality of users on the internet and the report of people who breed fish ? Who knows - maybe !

Actually with more people having access to the internet you would expect more people breeding since the knowledge is more readily available; but with the less sophisticated crowd their is also less interest. No offense - just talking about average across the entire population now on the internet.
--

I pretty much only communicate with people about fishes on the internet. To be honest where I live there is not much in the way of fish clubs or similar. The one real 'fish' store is pretty lame compare to those in other areas with regards to their procedure (they do not qt fishes; shipments come in the morning and they sell them in the afternoon; ...). I know there are some experts in the area but finding them is next to impossible without fish meet and similar.

 

[itiwhetu]

As a 17-year-old who is heavily involved in this hobby, I can't speak towards what it used to be, but I do feel I know where it's going. I've found a lot of negativity about this throughout the forum, as many think the internet and accessibility are ruining the hobby--that perhaps aquarists are a dying breed. In a sense, they're right. We are less driven to get to know fishkeepers in the area because we have this on our phones. It's easier to know how much work fishkeeping is beforehand, so fewer people get into the hobby. Also, why join clubs when there's eBay? Is breeding really the most fascinating project when people online are creating advanced paludariums? But those in my circle are still completely engaged in the wonders of reproduction, plant life, and biotopes, just in a totally different way.

The internet is obviously changing the hobby; we have access to so much information and thousands of stories. This may make us less appreciative of the actual keeping and individual fish as we get distracted by all of the wonderful science! Even the 'party' kids at my school love hearing about my tanks; not just "oh this fish is colorful" but the nitrogen cycle, equipment, parameters, etc. I feel this growth in understanding is making us better fish keepers and broadening the lense of the hobby. Breeding hasn't gotten less interesting to my generation, but the excess of information has made every other aspect of the hobby more interesting. Almost every tank I dream of has already been done and I can find it within minutes online. A lot fewer fish die through this research and a lot more breeding projects are successful without ever having to ask for help. I think I could be content keeping half of what I currently do if I could put all of that time just into reading articles and stories.

Maybe I'm not a great example, as I live in the countryside, but your wonders are somewhat correct. I very rarely interact with fishkeepers in my community. I occasionally meet hobbyists at aquariums, and some at my "local" (an hour away) fish store, but I regularly interact with none of them. To many, this is abhorrent and a massive downgrade to the community, but, as a young woman in a hobby of mainly adult men, being able to connect with other fish keepers via fish forums isn't only convenient, it feels safer. To control what people know about me and what they don't, keeping in mind that I can prevent them from ever seeing me in person, gives me a sense of safety (rational or not). This forum is safer and provides so much more insight than what the maybe 3 hobbyists in my city have to say.

Although you never insinuated that the hobby was going downhill, I feel the need to defend it. As the "future" that many long-timers complain about on this forum, is our future. I have faith we'll go in the right direction, even if it isn't what people imagined 30 years ago.

Thank you for your insight on how the next generation sees the hobby, please enjoy. It is a fantastic journey.

 

[Deleted member 149562]

Fishkeeping has evolved, as does everything, and not always in a good way but there is very little anyone can do to stop that happening....and the "old fogies" will not be listened to cos its old fashioned and largely out of date.

Old school works for those who were brought up doing things that way and that includes breeding fish instead of popping online and ordering it or running down the road to the shop and buying it.

Sometimes the internet is a good thing...but other times it has brought about the death knell for many a good thing...hands on fishkeeping being one of them, why do the hard graft to allow your fish to breed if you can buy replacements easily with the click of a mouse?

 

[itiwhetu]

Breeding fish is an indication of you actually keeping your fish in the optimum conditions for that species. It is allowing your fish to complete their life achieving what they were put on this planet for, that is reproducing.

 

[CaptainBarnicles]

I'm personally not interested in breeding fish at the moment, if it happens then cool but it's not what I'm concentrating on at the moment. I'm a full time mummy of an almost 4 and almost 1 year old...they keep me extremely busy along with everything else on my list. My tank is where I gravitate toward when I need a breather and some peace! For me, fishkeeping is a therapy! I've been on a myriad of different drugs and potions, in and out of Dr's offices and nothing compares. I don't need to breed my fish to feel like I'm being progressive or productive in my hobby, I'm content just to observe and learn about the livestock I've made an informed decision to keep and the same goes with the plants. And that's it for now

 

[Deleted member 149562]

Breeding fish is an indication of you actually keeping your fish in the optimum conditions for that species. It is allowing your fish to complete their life achieving what they were put on this planet for, that is reproducing.

The other issue here is money

If there was money in breeding fish, then many more would be doing it....sadly when that happens its not always appropriate or good breeding methods....there are some who see breeding fish regardless of conditions and a money maker....think puppy farming but with fish.

Many fish that do breed, mine included, do so usually by chance or accident or like rabbits (ie Cories) and it comes with the territory, so to speak...in an aquarium you will usually find male and female fish and they will get together eventually (unless you specifically have a single sex aquarium of course)

Fishkeeper nowadays do breed fish but I am not sure there is the emphasis on breeding them as there was decades ago when the choices of fish were far more limited than they are now and what is now classed as a run of the mill fish was a real exotic rarity 30-40 years ago...if that makes sense

 

[xxBarneyxx]

I think this is partly selective memory and confirmation bias as well.

30 years ago you weren't talking to literally hundreds of people across the entire planet about fish keeping. You was talking to a small group of people that was most likely local to you.

The ones making the effort to find like minded people were the ones that were really in to fishkeeping, i.e. the ones most likely to be breeding fish.

I would say the majority of fish keepers in the 80's were the same as they are now, just wanted a nice community tank. Its just that back then you weren't speaking to these people like you are now because the effort involved for them to do that was a lot more than just signing up to a forum.

Edit:
Also I have done fish breeding, I enjoy the challenge of it and watching the lifecycles of these animals we all love. However I have neither the time, space or money to do it now and I'm definitely not the only one. Cost of living keeps going up but wages don't match. Lots of people can't afford all the extra kit to really get into breeding and even if they could they don't have the space for it.

I would love to have more tanks, or even just 1 bigger tank but I literally only have space for a 2ft tank in my house and that is it. Even that is in a less than ideal spot. A lot of people are in much smaller housing.

 

[itiwhetu]

I think this is partly selective memory and confirmation bias as well.

30 years ago you weren't talking to literally hundreds of people across the entire planet about fish keeping. You was talking to a small group of people that was most likely local to you.

The ones making the effort to find like minded people were the ones that were really in to fishkeeping, i.e. the ones most likely to be breeding fish.

I would say the majority of fish keepers in the 80's were the same as they are now, just wanted a nice community tank. Its just that back then you weren't speaking to these people like you are now because the effort involved for them to do that was a lot more than just signing up to a forum.

I want to know if that is the case, is where are those that are breeding fish. They don't seem to be here.

 

[xxBarneyxx]

I want to know if that is the case, is where are those that are breeding fish. They don't seem to be here.

Probably on more specialist forums. Lets be honest here this forum has what, maybe two dozen active members that post regularly? A good chunk of them replied that they do or have bred fish.

A large chunk of newer members will also be new to the hobby so aren't going to be breeding fish.

That's just the nature of this forum. It is mostly populated by people new to the hobby looking for support with a rolling membership of more experienced members which drop in and out over time.

 

[itiwhetu]

Probably on more specialist forums. Lets be honest here this forum has what, maybe two dozen active members that post regularly? A good chunk of them replied that they do or have bred fish.

A large chunk of newer members will also be new to the hobby so aren't going to be breeding fish.

That's just the nature of this forum. It is mostly populated by people new to the hobby looking for support with a rolling membership of more experienced members which drop in and out over time.

That's a pity

 

[Myraan]

If you google a fishkeeping issue, the most useful results are often this forum, so lots of new people come here, both a good thing and a bad thing.

I dread to think the carnage of years ago when people either didn't seek advice or just asked a LFS, and there were more of them in those days, many much worse even than the big box stores of today.

Sure the big expensive books had good knowledge, but so many people would have seen those book as just for the fish nerds. The cheap aquarium books you bought in the petstore tended to have outdated advice even for those days.

My (and previous) generations grew up assuming mother nature only designed fish to live a few months during the rainy season at best, so a short life span in a goldfish bowl was only normal.

There are plenty of people I suspect into breeding like in the good old days, but their voices are just drowned out by all us plebs who were always present, we just murdered our fish through lack of experience without you ever finding out about it. That's what kept the money rolling in for all the small LFS that have since gone out of business.

 

[anewbie]

I visit several forums and I will say that a few people can be a bit overly opinionated which has a tendency to reduce the overall population at this forum. You will run into that on every forum but the difference is I find some of the opinions here much less fact based and more well philosophy based at best. As you reduce the forum population along with the new users some of the expertise also drifts away because they tire of the drama.