Brand New To The Hobby... Got A Lot Of Questions!

[Inchyally]

So i've had my tank since Christmas, set it up that day and purchased fish the following day. I started out with 2 Gouramis (living), 2 black angelfish (1 died), 2 different species of catfish (both died), 1 clown loach (living), 2 serpia tetras (living), 3 glass catys (all dead) and 2 sharks (one killed it's tankmate, i didn't know you couldn't have two because the person at the store said they must have a companion...) and also one other died I didn't know the species. So that was a disaster, didn't know about cycling, ammonia levels went out of control and almost the next morning all were dead (except the black angelfish, who died later). I think I had too many fish in a 20 gallon... am i correct?

I recently bought a companion for the clown loach, who is laying on his side most of the time. i tried to move it but it just floats and tips to its other side. Some sites call this a normal behavior of the species, but this time it isn't moving at all really. ANy tips?

Currently, my tank is like this
2 Gouramis
1 Black Angelfish
1 White aneglfish
2 Clown Loaches
1 Black Shark
1 Female crowntail betta
7 hatchetfish
3 serpia tetras
3 Cory Cats
The ammonia levels have gone down slightly, but are still high. Is the tank still cycling?

I have used Stress-Zyme which has done little, and started using Ammo-Lock, which did cause a slight decrease in ammopnia levels but not significats. Are these decent products?

Sorry if I sound like a n00b... the only things I have been working with is what my dad remembers of his tank he had 30 years ago and teh internet.

 

[doresy]

Ok so you ploughed into the hobby full pelt without the slightest bit of research and deaths were bound to happen.

One question remains.....have you learned by it?

My only advice to you is to return what is left of your fish stock to the shop or to anyone who will take them.

Most of them are unsuitable for that size tank anyway and either way an un-cycled tank is unsuitable for any fish.

Reasearch and do a fishless cycle......it's the only way in your situation (IMO)

 

[Paavn]

you definitely have way too many fish for such a small tank, especially for one that isnt cycled.
this might sound mean but i second what dorsey said, you'll save the lives of the remaining fish

 

[Miss Wiggle]

yes well you have a choice of two routes really, firstly you can return all the fish to the shop and do a fishless cycle, there is a detailed link in my signature which explains how this is done which will explain it all to you. without a doubt this is the safest and best way forward.

however if the fish shop won't accept the fish back or you can't bear to part with them then what you do is daily water changes to keep ammonia and nitrite under 0.25ppm, this may mean several 50% water changes every day for 6 weeks or so. it's a lot of hard work this way.

even when you're done and the tank is cycled you'll still have the following fish which are too big for your tank and need to be re-homed

2 Gouramis
1 Black Angelfish
1 White aneglfish
2 Clown Loaches
1 Black Shark

bear in mind that any exposure to ammonia or nitrite basically burns a fish's gills and respiratory system and does permanent damage that cannot be undone, this will grossly shorten the life of the fish and reduce it's quality of life while it's alive. so even if you do manage to keep them alive until teh end of the cycle you'll probably still do a lot of harm to them long term.

so undoubtedly returning the fish and doing a fishless cycle is your best bet.

sorry if this sounds harsh but you seem to have got yourself and these poor fish into a bit of a bad situation and sometimes it takes a few harsh words to make people realise what is the best thing to do.

don't be put off us though, we are a friendly bunch really. let us know your thoughts on re-homing the fish and we'll help you through every step of your cycle with or without fish.

 

[MHunt]

Where are you in the UK, perhaps if someone from the forum is close enough at hand we could help out with rehoming some of the fish or donating some mature filter media?

Either way you need to do loads of research to get you started. Learn about cycling and the different species of fish that you're keeping. There's a couple of decent books for beginners that will tell you most of the basics, plus information about common tropical species.

As has been said, we're not just saying this to put you off, quite the opposite, if you can learn from this then you'll have a much more enjoyable and knowledgeable fishkeeping experience in the future.

 

[Inchyally]

Where are you in the UK, perhaps if someone from the forum is close enough at hand we could help out with rehoming some of the fish or donating some mature filter media?

Either way you need to do loads of research to get you started. Learn about cycling and the different species of fish that you're keeping. There's a couple of decent books for beginners that will tell you most of the basics, plus information about common tropical species.

As has been said, we're not just saying this to put you off, quite the opposite, if you can learn from this then you'll have a much more enjoyable and knowledgeable fishkeeping experience in the future.

Nope, not in the UK, I'm in New York.... but anyway

I can't bring the fish back. The only fish I thought might be too big for the tank was the honey Gourami, who is a good inch or so bigger than the other fish.... THIS fish is the only one I am allowed to bring back... also the white angelfsih (called a 'blushing angel'?) is a bit big for the tank; the black angelfish is half its size. Also one of the clown loaches died... and the shark.... he looks the right size for the tank, as does the black aneglfish and remaining clown loach.... though in stores they look like they can grow much bigger...

I don't have 100% control over this tank just so you know... I'm only 15 (well I'll be 16 next monday but still I can't like drive to bring these fish back) so basically all decisions about what goes in and out of the tank must be approved by my father.

 

[DJ ArKaDaRkA]

Where are you in the UK, perhaps if someone from the forum is close enough at hand we could help out with rehoming some of the fish or donating some mature filter media?

Either way you need to do loads of research to get you started. Learn about cycling and the different species of fish that you're keeping. There's a couple of decent books for beginners that will tell you most of the basics, plus information about common tropical species.

As has been said, we're not just saying this to put you off, quite the opposite, if you can learn from this then you'll have a much more enjoyable and knowledgeable fishkeeping experience in the future.

Nope, not in the UK, I'm in New York.... but anyway

I can't bring the fish back. The only fish I thought might be too big for the tank was the honey Gourami, who is a good inch or so bigger than the other fish.... THIS fish is the only one I am allowed to bring back... also the white angelfsih (called a 'blushing angel'?) is a bit big for the tank; the black angelfish is half its size. Also one of the clown loaches died... and the shark.... he looks the right size for the tank, as does the black aneglfish and remaining clown loach.... though in stores they look like they can grow much bigger...

I don't have 100% control over this tank just so you know... I'm only 15 (well I'll be 16 next monday but still I can't like drive to bring these fish back) so basically all decisions about what goes in and out of the tank must be approved by my father.

does you father have good knowlage of fish?

if not let him have a read on here i think it will be benaficial to both of you

 

[Miss Wiggle]

the fish are only babies, they'll grow. the clown loaches can get to 16", the angels can get the size of a small plate, the sharks again can get 12" or so.

as adults they'll be too big for the tank and if you keep them in there too long it'll damage them.

ok so first step is start doing large daily water cahnges, 50% each day. that will buy you some time but you will need to work on persuading your dad to return some of the fish for you or find more suitable homes elsewhere.

for now read the link in my sig 'whats cycling' which explains all the cycling stuff and what to do, if you can then show the link to your dad as well so he can get up to speed and you can make joint decisions.

 

[MHunt]

Where are you in the UK, perhaps if someone from the forum is close enough at hand we could help out with rehoming some of the fish or donating some mature filter media?

Either way you need to do loads of research to get you started. Learn about cycling and the different species of fish that you're keeping. There's a couple of decent books for beginners that will tell you most of the basics, plus information about common tropical species.

As has been said, we're not just saying this to put you off, quite the opposite, if you can learn from this then you'll have a much more enjoyable and knowledgeable fishkeeping experience in the future.

Nope, not in the UK, I'm in New York.... but anyway

I can't bring the fish back. The only fish I thought might be too big for the tank was the honey Gourami, who is a good inch or so bigger than the other fish.... THIS fish is the only one I am allowed to bring back... also the white angelfsih (called a 'blushing angel'?) is a bit big for the tank; the black angelfish is half its size. Also one of the clown loaches died... and the shark.... he looks the right size for the tank, as does the black aneglfish and remaining clown loach.... though in stores they look like they can grow much bigger...

I don't have 100% control over this tank just so you know... I'm only 15 (well I'll be 16 next monday but still I can't like drive to bring these fish back) so basically all decisions about what goes in and out of the tank must be approved by my father.

There's plenty of members from the US too, so i'm sure something can still be arranged.

If it's a honey gourami, then it's probably ok for your tank, they don't get too big, 2 1/2" at most, unless it's been misidentified. The angels will get too big if not in length their fins will be poking out the top of the tank! The clown loaches can grow to over a foot long but very slowly and prefer to be in large groups so are only really suitable for very large tanks.

Yeah, as Miss Wiggle's said, keep doing water changes and water tests to make sure the waters healthy, and hopefully you can cycle the filter without too many more casualties.

 

[shaz-killie]

yeah as others have said those fish will def need rehoming or convince your father you need a larger tank but you still have the cycling issue. may even be worth posting a topic to see what members are in your area who can help you out with either matured water or rehoming those fish. black sharks can only be kept one per tank and can grow up to 20 inches plus are aggressive so the sooner you get rid of this particular fish the better. unfortunately you seem to like the type of fish that will be far to big for your tank so in the long term maybe think about saving for a larger tank and if you like sharks i'd suggest the redtail black shark as an alternative for the black. in the short term you are looking at small fish for your tank.

 

[MHunt]

yeah as others have said those fish will def need rehoming or convince your father you need a larger tank but you still have the cycling issue. may even be worth posting a topic to see what members are in your area who can help you out with either matured water or rehoming those fish. black sharks can only be kept one per tank and can grow up to 20 inches plus are aggressive so the sooner you get rid of this particular fish the better. unfortunately you seem to like the type of fish that will be far to big for your tank so in the long term maybe think about saving for a larger tank and if you like sharks i'd suggest the redtail black shark as an alternative for the black. in the short term you are looking at small fish for your tank.

Matured water makes no difference as it holds hardly any beneficial bacteria. What would be more useful is a mature filter sponge which would hold a suitable bacteria colony which would be able to support the tank almost immediately. It would colonise the new filter sponges within a couple of weeks.