Bottom Dwellers

[Rubyuk]

Evening All

The part of my stocking plans causing the biggest dilema is these guys,the bottom dwellers.

There is so much choice in the catfish/loach/plecs species.

To be honest,as a newbie I dont even know what the difference is,if there is one between catfish and plecs as in some of my books they are one and the same as opposed to having their own sections.

I'm not really show what I'm looking for so am open to suggestions for me to explore.

Size and sociability are perhaps the over riding factors as will be the numbers that the selections ideally have to be homes in.I will have a community set up in a 180 ltr tank (92cm x 41cm x 55cm high)

The other level tankmates will probably include,Emperor Tetras,Harlequinns,Male Platys,Gold Barbs (Barbus sachsi) as opposed to the bigger variety and eventually after several months a pair of Blue Rams.

I've read up and seen various types of Corys,so many that I'm not sure which I would prefer.If based on size/looks I'd probably go for the Panda Cory as they only grow to about 4cm?

There again,I see that pygmy corys grow to only about 2.5cm?

I realise/assume that either of these would need to be in groups of at least 5 (I know would probably be better still as in selecting most species)

Ideally I would like a few different lower tank mates.

If I had my way I would have clown loaches as I fell in love with them when I saw them,so playful and brightly coloured but alas I know they can grow upto 20cm or more which makes them a no no.

On the question of loaches I'm sure i've either read or someone has told me that its not a good idea to home catfish and loaches as they would squabble/compete for the bottom areas and food?

I've seen the Zebra Loach which I think only grows to about 10cm which will probably be at the upper end of the size of fish I'm looking for but I'm sure they need to be kept in a group so probably dont have the space,unless you were able to home as a single specimn or pair?

I've seen the playful Dwarf/Chain loach (although costing about £6 each?) but again I'm sure they need a group as only one will sulk and only two or three will fight eachother?

I like the look of the Otos in terms of size and the fact that as a secondary factor they perform algae eating duties but I'm still not sure about them as despite many comments that they are lovely etc I still read that they are painfully difficult to home and that if not enough algae in diet they tend to hitch rides on other slower moving fish in a parasite manner to graze on the other fish's mucous (see my other thread on Ottos)

If I'm right and went for the Ottos could I get away with just say 3?

Someone has referred me to plecs but there is so much choice and so many L numbers as the only way of identifying them and so many different sizes,most of which would be too big for me unless there was one that would be happy on its own?

Most seem to love the Bristlenose Plec/Catfish which I assume is what the BN stands for in several posts I come across?

I've read about an Ancistrus SP L59 BN that only grows to about 8cm referred to as well as a 'starry' (?) Bristlenose but its so difficult when seeing BN's in LFS to identify and shop keepers dont really seem to know.The ones I see are really small (ie babies) about an inch or two costing about £3-00 to £3.50 but again only the fish keepers word as to how big they'll get and whether a solitary specimn is acceptable or if you need to home as many as possible?

I also read from posts that again they have a good secondary function as algae cleaners on the tank walls?

If at all possible I would like a combination of bottom feeders to marvel over and watch like pairs/solitary species or small groups as opposed to one large group of one kind.

I'm not wanting to get just one specimn of 3-4 different species as even though I'm a newbie I realise that the fish's welfare/comfort is the over riding priority and that my thoughts on size/colour/numbers etc are secondary as I will not home a single fish of any kind if I read/am told that they require pairs at least or 5/6 and more.

I'm not sure but was possibly thinking along the lines of 2 BN's (smallest adult variety I can find) together with say 3 Ottos and 4 Corys? Does that sound a workable plaN?

A hard question (and long winded) I know but I also know that I will get several thoughts/ideas from the usual suspects on here

I'm not sure but was possibly thinking along the lines of 2 BN's (smallest adult variety I can find) together with say 3 Ottos and 4 Corys? Does that sound a workable plaN?

 

[tony m]

i havent kept ottos but i have kept bristlenose and corys as for corys they are happy in groups and r quite fun to watch them scurrying around the tank together it looks like there playing tag and chasing each other round in a fun way. i had six in a similar sized tank three bronze a albino and 2 peppered they all played together. all corys normally play together no matter what strain. i would get a min of 5 but also they like sand as gravel can damage thier barbels when there scaveging if its sharp. as for bristlenose i only had one it seemed very happy and did a good job of keeping the glass clean. i would stay away from any of the L number plecs nearly all will get to big for your tank and some are quite pricey. ive also sent you a private message

 

[Rubyuk]

i havent kept ottos but i have kept bristlenose and corys as for corys they are happy in groups and r quite fun to watch them scurrying around the tank together it looks like there playing tag and chasing each other round in a fun way. i had six in a similar sized tank three bronze a albino and 2 peppered they all played together. all corys normally play together no matter what strain. i would get a min of 5 but also they like sand as gravel can damage thier barbels when there scaveging if its sharp. as for bristlenose i only had one it seemed very happy and did a good job of keeping the glass clean. i would stay away from any of the L number plecs nearly all will get to big for your tank and some are quite pricey. ive also sent you a private message

Thanks Tony

No pm received as yet,but maybe its just a time delay thing.

I'll keep checking

 

[OldMan47]

Ruby, if you really want to get confused by the enormous selection of bottom dwellers available, try spending some time looking through the lists of different catfish on PlanetCatfish. The L-series catfish are the plecostomus type grouping. There are 412 L numbers listed. The L numbers are numbers used by suppliers to define the fish they intend to ship you. Since some of the fish have not been formally named by the scientists, it makes identification more uniform. There is also a C series of numbers that refer to the corydoras type fish. I just looked and there are 156 C numbers. There are also 37 CW numbers listed that are cory looking fish. Both groups of L numbers and C numbers include some duplication so there really are not quite that many different catfish but the numbers are huge. If you actually check the L numbers, not all of them get as big as Tony M warned you but in general the plecos do tend to run quite large in many cases.
For activity, the Corydoras and similar fish are very active and entertaining in groups of at least 5 fish. The plecostomus do not really need such large numbers and seldom seem to interact well with each other. The plecs are generally territorial rather than being schooling type fish.

 

[doresy]

If you want something different why not try Gobies. If you have sand (which is best for cory too) then they are great fun to watch

 

[Rubyuk]

Dorsey - what are Gobies?

 

[Inchworm]

Hi Rubyuk

One of my most interesting tanks is a 55 gallon that has, except for 2 small male limia vittatas, nothing but corydoras, kuhli loaches and otos. There is always activity of some sort going on. They get along well and none of these fish know the meaning of the word conflict. Even fully grown, otos and kuhlis are small and seem to use up very little space.

To be honest,as a newbie I dont even know what the difference is,if there is one between catfish and plecs as in some of my books they are one and the same as opposed to having their own sections.

A pleco is a catfish, and so are corydoras, aspadoras, brochis, and some bigger and meaner fish that would not be appropriate for a peaceful community. Many plecos get very big, but bristlenose plecos stay small. They're a good choice if you want something bigger than the tiny otos. If you think you might want to try your hand at raising a batch of egg laying fish, at some time in the future, these are an excellent choice.

Bristlenose family:

IMHO, corydoras are as near to a perfect schooling fish as you will get for a community tank. They are active, playful, and spend most of their time together.

Cw010 aka C. aeneus (orange lasers)

C. similis

C. bilineatus (San Juan cory)

3 C. schultzi (black) and a C. nattereri

C. aeneus (bronze corys) and C. robinae during water change

C. panda

Of all the corydoras pictured, the C. panda are probably the most difficult to keep among a community. All the others are easy and have simple needs. If your tank is well oxygenated, clean, free of sharp or coarse gravel, and the food is appropriate, they will do well for you.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

my thoughts are you should got for a decent sized group of cories, in a good sized group they are the most lively fun community fish you can get your hands on. they're also (for the most part) hardy and will mix with most other fish no problems.

i'd steer clear of the panda's as they are probably the least hardy of all the cory species, even expert keepers tend to have problems keeping them alive so I'd suggest they may not be the best fish for your first catfish experience. if you go for one of the more robust species then you can always get the panda's at some time in the future when you're a little more confident with what you're doing.

I'd then supplement the group of cories with a pair of bristlenoses and leave it at that for bottom crew for the time being.

remember to an extent the stocking capacity of your tank will increase over time. at 6 months old, stable and mature a tank can hold more fish than a newly cycled one, so you could always add in a group of otto's or loaches down the line.

 

[Johnlenham]

Awww out of all the corys I think pandas look the best, Guess ill stick to the much hardy versions. Good to know for future purchases

 

[Miss Wiggle]

yeah everyone loves panda's, and everyone's heart broken when they die!

sorry that may be an exaggeration but it's one of those commonly bandied around fish that i do think isn't really suitable for your first tank. if nothing else the tank needs to be 6 months old before you add them and you need to have a bit of fishkeeping experience under your belt to spot potential problems.

lovely fish though, very attractive.

 

[Rubyuk]

Hi Rubyuk

One of my most interesting tanks is a 55 gallon that has, except for 2 small male limia vittatas, nothing but corydoras, kuhli loaches and otos. There is always activity of some sort going on. They get along well and none of these fish know the meaning of the word conflict. Even fully grown, otos and kuhlis are small and seem to use up very little space.

To be honest,as a newbie I dont even know what the difference is,if there is one between catfish and plecs as in some of my books they are one and the same as opposed to having their own sections.

A pleco is a catfish, and so are corydoras, aspadoras, brochis, and some bigger and meaner fish that would not be appropriate for a peaceful community. Many plecos get very big, but bristlenose plecos stay small. They're a good choice if you want something bigger than the tiny otos. If you think you might want to try your hand at raising a batch of egg laying fish, at some time in the future, these are an excellent choice.

Bristlenose family:

IMHO, corydoras are as near to a perfect schooling fish as you will get for a community tank. They are active, playful, and spend most of their time together.

Cw010 aka C. aeneus (orange lasers)

C. similis

C. bilineatus (San Juan cory)

3 C. schultzi (black) and a C. nattereri

C. aeneus (bronze corys) and C. robinae during water change

C. panda

Of all the corydoras pictured, the C. panda are probably the most difficult to keep among a community. All the others are easy and have simple needs. If your tank is well oxygenated, clean, free of sharp or coarse gravel, and the food is appropriate, they will do well for you.

Blimey...thats quite a sea of Corys you have there

Re Kulhi Loach- how big do they get? and dont they bury themselves almost fully under the substrate most of the time?

 

[Rubyuk]

my thoughts are you should got for a decent sized group of cories, in a good sized group they are the most lively fun community fish you can get your hands on. they're also (for the most part) hardy and will mix with most other fish no problems.

i'd steer clear of the panda's as they are probably the least hardy of all the cory species, even expert keepers tend to have problems keeping them alive so I'd suggest they may not be the best fish for your first catfish experience. if you go for one of the more robust species then you can always get the panda's at some time in the future when you're a little more confident with what you're doing.

I'd then supplement the group of cories with a pair of bristlenoses and leave it at that for bottom crew for the time being.

remember to an extent the stocking capacity of your tank will increase over time. at 6 months old, stable and mature a tank can hold more fish than a newly cycled one, so you could always add in a group of otto's or loaches down the line.

Great advice Miss W..again...which I will take on board.

Maybe the Bronze or peppered Corys I think..........are the pygmy corys an acceptable alternative or are they harder to get hold of as everywhere I go there are Panda/Peppered/Bronze corys galore.

One lfs even had some black corys (stunning) labelled up as Venezluaian corys (as in the country...sorry about spelling) at about £9 eachy though. I've not read/seen this variety in any of the books I have?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

oh the venezualian ones are stunning, if i remember correctly they were fairly newly discovered (or just new to the trade) so your books may not cover them.

again the pgymy's can be a touch delicate, not as bad as the panda's but not as hardy as something like the peppereds.

if you can get venezuelan's I'd pick some of those up in a shot!

 

[Rubyuk]

oh the venezualian ones are stunning, if i remember correctly they were fairly newly discovered (or just new to the trade) so your books may not cover them.

again the pgymy's can be a touch delicate, not as bad as the panda's but not as hardy as something like the peppereds.

if you can get venezuelan's I'd pick some of those up in a shot!

Do you know how big they get to? Have you had any or is it a case of you'd love some?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

not had any but would love some!

inchworm will undoubtedly be able to tell you when she pops back up or you can head over to the cory forum and someone over there will tell you.