Bolivian Rams

[Betta_Shark5678]

Hi! 
 
I was going to get a Angelfish for my 55 gallon tank, but I felt like it might get cramped, and I was nervous about it eating my Glowlight Tetras, so I decided against it.  It turns out that my LPS, which actually has a very knowledgeable person working in the fish department, possibly got some Bolivian Rams in a shipment yesterday, or the day before.  I've been reading about them, but I was really wondering if anybody has them with Bristlenose Plecos?  
 
I read the the Rams would be comfortable down to 76F, but are best near 80F?  I keep my tank around 78F, so I wanted to know if you thought what I read was accurate, or if I should just skip the Cichlids in my tank.  I was thinking about a male/female pair.  
 
Thanks for the help!

 

[Essjay]

There are two type of ram. Bolivian rams would be fine at your temp. It's non-bolivians (the ones called blue, german blue, gold etc) that need the warmer temps. Bolivian can also cope with harder, more alkaline water thatn the other type of rams.
The two species are:
bolivians - Mikrogeophagus altispinosus
blue, gold etc - Mikrogeophagus ramirezi
 
But I can't help with the bristlenose question I'm afraid as I've never had bn's

 

[TallTree01]

I've never kept rams but I know how big something needs to be to hurt a bristlensoe. My hand was spiked. The rams will be fine.

 

[fluttermoth]

Rams (of both kinds) are safe with BNs, in terms of aggression. BNs don't really like the high temps needed for the blue ram, although they can cope with it; people have kept them in discus tanks without issues.

 

[FiSh123FiSh]

I happen to keep both BNs with Rams and I haven't encountered any problems. They seem to keep themselves to themselves. I run my tank at 26'c which I think is around 78f.

 

[Betta_Shark5678]

Thank you for all your replies! I took your advice that they'd be okay, and after a very busy day I got two.    I'm still trying to work out male or female, hoping for one of each.  They're both close to 2", one is bigger than the other.  I'll get pictures, and hope that someone can help me!
 
They are currently eating, and spitting out sand...?  Is that normal? 

 

[Essjay]

The sand thing is quite normal. Their latin name (Mikrogeophagus) means small earth eater. They take a mouthful of sand and sift it for particles of food. It often comes out of their gills as well.
 
If it's bolivians you've got, they are quite hard to sex until their breeding tubes show. Even if you have 2 males, they'll probably tolerate each other - mine  were OK as just 2 males. Until I got some females, and gave them somthing to fight over.

 

[Betta_Shark5678]

I'm glad the sand thing is normal.  It makes sense now.  Thank you!
 
I've been reading about about sexing them.  The breeding tube on one is very visible, and is pointed straight down, and the other I can see sometimes, it's pointed straight back against the body.  I realized that I won't be able to post pictures for that purpose because the only camera I have right now is on my iPod, and that won't show

 

[Essjay]

The main difference is the shape. The breeding tube of a female is wide and the same width all the way down as the eggs have to pass through it. The male's breeding tube is wide next to his body but goes to a point. The male's is supposed to go backwards but mine never went back like the pics I've seen.

 

[Betta_Shark5678]

Thanks, I am having a really hard time, sometimes it looks the same size, and other times it looks pointed
I saw somewhere else that you can tell by body shape?  I don't know if that's true or not, but if it is then I have one male, and one female as far as I can tell.

 

[Essjay]

The main problem with other indicators is that they often don't work in newly bought fish.
The female should have a belly that's rounded from mouth to tail, while the male is rounded at the front and flatter towards the tail. But an undernourished female will also look flat - and fish can be undernourished when you buy them.
Males' fins have extensions. Not just the dorsal fin, but the tail and fins on the underside. But a juvenile male won't have grown the extensions yet - and fish on sale are usually juveniles, or they could have been eroded/bitten off in the shop tank.
Males tend to be more colourful - but fish are usually stressed in the shop tank and are pale. It takes a while for them to settle into their new home and develop their full colour.
 
I would wait until your new fish have settled in, you'll be able to tell better when they stop being stressed from the whole experience of the shop and being bought.

 

[Betta_Shark5678]

They have a lot of color already, in the store one of the ones I bought didn't have the stripe on it's eye, now it's pitch black! They are definitely undernourished, their stomachs are almost caved in.  I'm going to try to get some bloodworms, or something for them today.  I know my other community fish, and my bettas will like that, too  

 

[r.w.girard]

If you are still interested in sexing your bolivian rams, check out this guide: http/brc.moonfruit.com/#/sexing-guide/4528902946.
 
The only way to positively identify the sex is via the ventricle tube.  Females have a rounded bump.  Males have a back-swept splinter.  If you are looking at just one, it can be hard to guess which is which but with two it should be easy to contrast. Also, just post a picture and we can tell you. But it needed to be a picture in which the ventricle is clearly visible.
 
All of the other markers are present in varying degrees between males and females: namely more pronounced in males.  But that makes it quite hard with juvenile fish.  Good luck getting them fattened up.
 
Lastly, about hollow bellies, a bent spine from inbreeding - that is, poor genetics - can twist the head down, giving the impression of a hollow stomach.  Hopefully that is not the case.  Just thought I would let you know.

 

[Betta_Shark5678]

Thanks for the link, the pictures are really helping.  Based on that it looks like I have two males.  Though one doesn't have any visible breeding tube at all, so I'll keep on eye on them.  I'm getting a good camera in the next month, so I should get a picture soon.  For now all I have is an iPod touch, and the pictures are pretty bad.  
 
Bloodworms soon, I couldn't convince my Mom to go to the pet store yesterday, so for now they eat the same food as the rest of my fish.
 
Thanks, only one of them has the hollowed stomach.  I checked just now and it's head/spine looks pretty much the same shape as the other one, so hopefully it's just several malnourished! 
 
Edit: I didn't realize that the link had more information, and missed the fin/head shape guides.  It seems that I may have one female, and one male, the one without a visible breeding tube is a female based on all the other ways to tell...

 

[Betta_Shark5678]

Sorry for the double post, but I was reading about breeding behavior, thinking that maybe I'd seen them do something to suggest one male, and one female.  They've lip locked a few times, and I passed if off as aggressive! Also, I think the male would be more territorial with the possible female than it has been.  In fact, the female is the only fish he doesn't chase away from "his" rock cave.  Poor platys loved those caves, too...