black phantoms

[Briarmoor]

I really thought the salt bath had helped, but alas, maybe not.

The gulping female Black Phantom has taken a turn for the worse. She is quite bloated also. I thought bacterial, now I am wondering if dropsy? There is noticeable "pineconing" of the scales. She is small and black, so perhaps I didn't notice it earlier or it has gotten bad. She cannot keep her balance, hardly at all, being carried by the current. Very sad. I rigged up a net to hold her in one place so she wouldn't get banged around.

I noticed another tetra gulping earlier and gave it a salt bath too. I was thinking bacterial since it seemed to be spreading. Is there anything that resembles the pineconing that is not dropsy, could still be bacterial?

I have dog antibiotics here, 500mg Cephalexin powder. I put off treating the whole 55g tank, but maybe I should? Do I remove the carbon for antibiotics? I know you do for other stuff. My books don't go into much detail on the subject.

Wonder why these guys are sick? The others ate tonight, but I am paranoid they are all going to go bad. Poor fish. And I don't know what to do for them.

On the off change, I checked parameters and they are fine. Should I do a partial change anyway??? Any ideas at all? I probably can't save the one female, but maybe the others.

P.

 

[tttnjfttt]

Yup, I agree, its definately bacterial. Dropsey is bacterial, and also very lethal. If you don't have another tank, you will need to treat everyone. You do want to remove the carbon filter as the carbon will absorb all the medicine you are putting in the tank.

Also, I would be hesitant to use the dog antibiotics, simply because they may not disolve correctly in water. Inside your dog's stomache is acid, just like there is in your stomache. So the meds are made to disolve in the acid. Not sure if they will disolve in the water, or be absorbed through the fishes skin, which i know atleast Maracyn and Maracyn 2 are.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Its does sound like dropsy and it also sounds like the tetra is beyond help now, i would seriously consider euthanasia.
Also tetras cannot tolerate salt so all the salt will be doing for them is for the worse.

 

[Briarmoor]

Very good, the advice that is. I tried dissolving some meds in water and it concerned me, so I left it be and did not medicate the tank. I will get up early before work and pick up some Meracyn. I don't know how I will filter the tank as the filters come ready made and have the carbon already in them? I am also worried about a new cycle starting up taking both filters off at once. What, if anything, can I do about this? Somehow rig up my own filters without carbon? Maybe I can take a piece off an old filter from another tank once this is over and seed a new filter.

And I am going to call the LFS to let them know so they can be on the lookout for other sick fish. I am not real happy and hope this is an isolated incident with them. If the fish is dead in the a.m. I'll take her along so they can see her. They only guarantee 24 hours, I don't expect a credit, refund, or replacement, but as these were the only fish in my tank besides the pleco and one was sick the minute she got in the tank, they came from the store that way.

Maybe I can save the next gulping one and prevent the others getting sick.

P.

 

[tttnjfttt]

My suggestion about pre-filled carbon filters (assuming you don't have a spounge) would be to place your filter in a bucket of dechlorinated water. Working under water, cut open the filter, and remove the carbon, but leaving the part where the bacteria are partially attached.

I've read that if your carbon is over a week old, it is worthless, but I'm not sure how accurate that is, or if you really want to test this out when your fish are sick.

 

[Briarmoor]

I lost the female this morning. She had gotten out of the net and wedged herself in a plant to hold herself up. Very sad. Helpless feeling not being able to do much for her.

I took her in to the LFS and just told them I wanted them to see her in case they'd had others or might have others. The guy said no problems with their fish there. Then he asked if it was a new tank and I said up about 8 weeks and cycled, zero ammonia and nitrites, yada yada. So once he hears the levels are okay he starts in about recycled city water (what the rest of my fish are thriving on). The same water they use in the store too.

The LFS guy admitted he was the one who talked to me Saturday. I made sure I told him had I known it was dropsy I would have treated. He never admitted it was dropsy. Then he said new tanks were a problem. The other guys there have been nice, but I can't deal with this one again. The manager greeted me when I came in and I told him I needed to talk to him. He never intervened in the conversation between me and the employee. It doesn't sit well. I was very polite, quiet, but made sure they understood my position. I doubt I'll buy there again.

I may just go back to Petco, quarantine, and take my chances. Less outlay, less B.S., and a 2-week guarantee.

Meanwhile, the other gulper was about the same. I got a filter (no carbon in the pads), heater, and Maracyn-2. When I got it home, I noticed it said saltwater at the top. No idea if that is okay, but they don't refund, so I hope so. I had to break the tablets in quarters as the bucket is only 2g. The fish seems okay. I had to turn the heater way down to keep the temp right.

Other Phantoms are coming out a lot more, cruising the bubble bar and eating. No gulping. So I will wait on treating the big tank unless I see more get sick. So far, just these 2.

Thanks for you help and input everyone. Let me know if I can be doing anything else.

R.I.P. little phantom

P.

 

[tttnjfttt]

Sorry about the bad employee at the LFS. I just don't know why they can't admit that they sold you a sick fish. You are doing everything right. I hear what you mean about possibly going back to a chain LPS. Lately, I have been finding that PetsMart actually has people who know something about what they are talking about. Or they will atleast admit I dont know when I stump them.

Something else I have noticed was the major difference between employees at a single store. There are two people who I will talk to about fish at my LPS (not petsmart), the manager and assistant manager. Both are very knowlegable, and admit what they don't know. I've had a few encounters with other employees who I would be amazed if they knew what dechlorinator was.

My point - maybe only buy fish on days when the manager or someone else you trust is there.

 

[Briarmoor]

My point - maybe only buy fish on days when the manager or someone else you trust is there.

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It doesn't eliminate the 24 hour guarantee though. And when I get into the higher dollar Rainbows at $10 a piece, they better not be sick. Or they better be replaced. Best yet, not sick. I spent hours on the Internet looking for stuff to help that fish last night. Not worth the time to spend more $$ somewhere just to avoid that and have it happen anyway. Guess you can tell I don't leave much room for error with folks. An honest mistake, I'll forgive. This guy I can't.

BTW, is the Maracyn-2 that says saltwater okay? I didn't see any other kind. I can get the ingredients if you want. It was antibiotic and B vitamins basically. Unless that particular antibiotic isn't good for freshwater, and I can't imagine why not, it seems like not much else in the tablets would hurt freshwater fish. B vitamins are good for stressed people too, I better go take some.

P.

 

[tttnjfttt]

My Maracyn 2 specifically says for freshwater fish, and doesn't say anything about vitimin B. My bigger concern would be anything related to the pH. I know marine tanks are at a higher pH, and they might have different buffering ingredients in them? Totally guessing at this point, and playing devils advocate .

How about asking the manager what happens if the fish is obviously ill within the first 24 hours? because if the fish is sick that quickly, it came from the shop, but has to be on deaths door to die that fast.

 

[Briarmoor]

Hmmm, hadn't considered the buffering thing. I'll check the pH. Mine is fairly high here, mid 7's, so I will hope. Maybe I need to get on the board and find someone who wants to trade some freshwater Meracyn for it. I paid $20 and will only use 1 and 1/4 tablets. )

The guy I talked to knew I called him on Saturday the day after I bought the sick fish. He *should* have offered to replace it then or at least had me bring it back in. He never did. Well 15 seconds on the phone isn't much time for that, is it. He never offered a replacement or refund when I brought it back in.

Like I said, before I get into high $$ fish, I will be buying them elsewhere. Made up my mind after this incident. They just lost at least $50 in sales as I was going to buy 5 of the rainbows. Replacing a $3.50 fish might have been a better decision for them.

Anyway, the sick phantom is wiggling her fins, upright, in her bucket of yellowy green medicated water and seems okay. I don't see eating but there is no more gulping. Good sign? I hope so. She got her second dose tonight. How much ammonia will build up in a 2 gallon bucket with one phantom in it? Of course, it is not cycled and there is no carbon in the filter. She is supposed to get 5 doses, one a day. Wonder if the water will last that long as I am not supposed to change it out so the meds work.

Other 4 are swimming around the big tank and eating. The last few days of netting and such has made them a bit shy again, but they are not gulping or seeming stressed. I think more fish in there will make them feel at home. No mini cycle so far. Don't need further troubles. The next fish I buy will be quarantined. Not sure a bucket will be enough room. Excuse for another tank? I kinda like the bucket since it won't break and I can carry it anywhere. Maybe a bigger bucket. Quarantine a week? 10 days?

P.

 

[jollysue]

I gather, although I'm pretty ignorant, that the same rule of 1" per gallon works in buckets too. I have always and for whole treatment periods used filter media that can be bought in sheets and cut to the size of the filter place. The bacteria usually continue to do their job. So you have two of the three types of filters working. In addition there are filter media like chemi-pure that are excellent filter substitutes for carbon and don't affect most medications. Ask your lfs or check some more in the forum. I only skimmed your thread here so I may have missed something. If I'm out of turn

Sorry about your fishes. Grief is real even with fishes and the helplessness and and sense of responsibility is almost spiritual. It's Edenic.

I just read alittle more of your posts. It appears that you may not have bacteria with a new filter. Could bacteria starter help? Carbon is certainly good, but it's not the only "all that."

I've found that as I've built a relationship with an reputable enterprise they reach out a bit more and even exceed their replacement guidelines.