Biting My Nails Here

[LionessN3cubs]

ummm what happens when a cycle stalls/crashes?

I put in a little less than 4ppm ammonia yesterday at 8:30 amish. I tested last night around 8 and it was still a little more than 1.0. Get up this morning...still at 1.0 at 7 am. That doesnt concern me over much..thats a little higher than what I've been seeing at 24 hour mark but then..Im testing an hour and a half early today so no big

What DOES concern me is this: To MY understanding things are supposed to happen in a certain order with the 2 seperate bacteria's. While Im working on establishing the abacs' the nitrite should climb. The abacs should be well established before the Nbacs start dropping ....the nitrite was supposed to take twice as long to drop as the ammonia did. I now have almost NO nitrites anymore when I had been spiked up to 5.0 a few days ago. My nitrite spike lasted like 2 days TOPS before it started falling AND Im still not able to process 4 ppm of ammonia in less than 25 hours. The color of nitrite Im getting right now is a very lightly purple tinted blue. Not sky blue yet but by tomorrow I bet it will be. Yet, as I said, Im not processing enough ammonia quick enough. Is my cycle stalled or crashed or just screwed up?

I had planned, when it was time, to only buy like 4 fish at once. if I can process say 2 ppm in 12 hours and my nitrites are down to 0, am I cycled enough to add a few fish and then if I added say 2 more fish 2-3 weeks later would the bacteria be able to "catch up" on the fish load? Im asking because I think (praying) what happened is that I wasn't adding enough ammonia for the last week...so its well established for 2pmm but not 4ppm.

 

[jwddboy]

Well... one of the major reasons adding ammonia is such a good idea is because it enables you to put all of your fish in when the time is right. Asking a filter to 'catch up' on a bio load can result in some problems unless it's done very well. I generally build up more bacteria than iis needed for the fish I'm going to add and then put all of the fish in. This enables the filter to be able to process any other sources of ammonia production like decaying matter.

Now onto the main problem -

1. are you using a liquid test kit?

1.5 is your test kit(s) after it's expirey date?

2. what filter are you using?

3. there is actually more bacteria you should bring to the tank, these are bacteria that will help in the breakdown of matter. For this i would reccomend feeding the tank a few times also.

4. if your nitrites fall to 0 before your ammonia then you are probably not yet processing your ammonia properly yet. I'd change to adding 5ppm and then leaving it to sort itself out, which it will do. If you are reading ammonia then it's not a good idea to be thinking of adding fish.

Hope that helps?

 

[waterdrop]

Hi jwddboy,

Yes, Lioness has the right type of liquid test kit and has been posting here and getting advice for a long time now.

You are right about the final ammonia adding.

I think she is at the very end stage now where she just needs to ease each daily add of ammonia back up to 4ppm, maybe 5ppm as you say, and then both populations of bacteria will be able to handle the full fish load her tank can take.

What she was doing at this point (don't let me put words in your mouth, Lioness, lol, just correct this if I'm wrong!) was, only for the nitrite spike period, only adding 2ppm of ammonia daily so that she could see the nitrite results a little better.

Lioness, my own suggestion would be to do just what's being talked about here and what we've talked about before: Since it looks like nitrites are now dropping to zero, begin increasing the amount of ammonia you add. Go up to adding 3ppm. When you see that both ammonia and nitrite have dropped to zero (no matter what time frame it took, but hopefully it did it faster) a couple times or so then add 4ppm, then 5ppm.

While you are doing these final increases, you are hopefully observing and seeing that both ammonia and nitrite are being processed more and more quickly and hopefully meeting the ideal 10-12 hour test.

Just about the exact same thing has currently been happening to me, mostly because of my setback from the tank breaking. My A-bacs have died back and I'm having to build them back up.

I too don't really want to add my entire stock of fish at once and so have been very tempted to do exactly what you describe. From the logic of most advice here it would seem like adding, say, 4 zebra danios to a system where the filter is now processing 2ppm of ammonia and any amount of nitrite down to zero in 12 hours should be ok. Even if it were processing 4ppm down in 12 hours, its capacity would drop back some when it only saw a load of 4 danios.

After all, the filter was already previously dropping 4ppm of ammonia in 12 hours just prior to the nitrite spike, right? It just fell back a little while you were adding only 2ppm for the nitrite spike stage IIR. So I would think it could build back up quickly. It would help to hear the feeling from more experienced people - the only flaw I can think of is that maybe this logic is flawed and they know they would feel comfortable only if it was already processing up at the 4ppm level.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[LionessN3cubs]

Lioness, my own suggestion would be to do just what's being talked about here and what we've talked about before: Since it looks like nitrites are now dropping to zero, begin increasing the amount of ammonia you add. Go up to adding 3ppm. When you see that both ammonia and nitrite have dropped to zero (no matter what time frame it took, but hopefully it did it faster) a couple times or so then add 4ppm, then 5ppm.

While you are doing these final increases, you are hopefully observing and seeing that both ammonia and nitrite are being processed more and more quickly and hopefully meeting the ideal 10-12 hour test.

Just about the exact same thing has currently been happening to me, mostly because of my setback from the tank breaking. My A-bacs have died back and I'm having to build them back up.

I too don't really want to add my entire stock of fish at once and so have been very tempted to do exactly what you describe. From the logic of most advice here it would seem like adding, say, 4 zebra danios to a system where the filter is now processing 2ppm of ammonia and any amount of nitrite down to zero in 12 hours should be ok. Even if it were processing 4ppm down in 12 hours, its capacity would drop back some when it only saw a load of 4 danios.

After all, the filter was already previously dropping 4ppm of ammonia in 12 hours just prior to the nitrite spike, right? It just fell back a little while you were adding only 2ppm for the nitrite spike stage IIR. So I would think it could build back up quickly. It would help to hear the feeling from more experienced people - the only flaw I can think of is that maybe this logic is flawed and they know they would feel comfortable only if it was already processing up at the 4ppm level.

~~waterdrop~~
[/quote]

Waterdrop ...I can't process 4ppm in 12 hours...its always taken well over 24 hours to process that much. For example. Yesterday I added between 2=4 ppm ammonia around 8am (I think it was) now today at almost 11 am...I still have about .50 ppm of ammonia. 2ppm processes in a little over 12 hours..probably more like 18 ish hours. Now, mind you, I can't get it exact because of the way the color charts are....I know I've been adding slighly more than 2ppm but I dont know how close to 4..it might only be a LITTLE bit over 2 or it might be ALMOST 4. I've been very cautious in keeping it between the last 2 colors so I didnt over do like I did at first. HOWEVER, I had forgotten that I changed my adding schedule. I had been adding in the afternoons...then went to adding in the mornings so Im sure that figures into the time dropped thing

I DID have a nitrite spike for at least 2 days ...and I used 2 seperate testing kits to check that level..the api liquid and the tetratest liquid...both agreed on all 3 occasions. Now, they're both agreeing that I have almost none (lightly purple tinged sky blue on api, slightly orange on tetra)

Overall..here are my deal. I havent been worried about how long its taking to process the ammonia...its been fairly consistant and I know from reading on here that all of a sudden it should start happening soon.

April 7th (day 1) correct amount of ammonia
april 24th (day 17) dropped 1st time
April 28th (day 21) Nitrite spike 5.0
May 3rd (day 26) Today My tests at 24 hours were .50 ammonia and barely there nitrites (.3)

As I stated in other threads I think the fact of it being so cold here and my tank temperature dropping didn't help much...I think its slowed things down. Hopefully our cold snap is over since it was 60 yesterday instead of 40

So, here's what Im thinking. I'll add 4mls steadily as I have been. Im going to keep testing nitrites to see if they spike up again but if they dont Im not going to sweat it...I KNOW I had a spike and the only way for nitrites to disappear is if the bacteria converts them (no plants) so if they dont spike again then I know Im good there. I never could figure out how to get exactly 4ppm so I've gone with the ML measurement on the syringe I use to add. I KNOW that is more than 2ppm and less than 4ppm ...I'll check in 12 hours and see where Im at there

I STILL am intrigued by the fact that when I add ammonia...the first say 6 hours means NOTHING...nothing moves a bit....8 hours nothing moves a bit...but those last 4 hours everything drops what its going to quickly.


Edit: I can process 2-3 ppm in 13 hours...not 18 as stated above. Sorry about that!

 

[jwddboy]

THIS may help?

Sounds like a plan though.

I'm sure you're right about the cold spell stalling it.
I'd also suggest you try to not let the ammonia drop to 0 for too long. (i know you probably aren't, im just saying)

 

[waterdrop]

Lioness,

Sounds like a good plan. I'd say you understand it as well as the rest of us. Just be steady and include times and amounts clearly in your log. Sometimes I find it tricky to schedule testing begin/end periods that will tell me whether the process got faster because at one or the other end I'm too busy driving kids around to be able to get to the house - may be a problem for you too - extremely difficult to make all the schedules work I think.

I'm at the same stage as you, happy with my N-bac population but trying to make my A-bac population bigger just prior to stocking some fish.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[LionessN3cubs]

well....now I know I guess. My nitrites are slightly raised tonight...we'll see how they are in the morning.

Good note is that I had a definate 4.0 of ammonia added at 2:30 this afternoon...11pm tonight its down to 1. I wont be awake at the 12 hours mark but I'd say its getting close to finishing in the right amount of time as long as my tank temperature doesnt drop again.

I think thats what made things screwy...the cold weather here and the temp dropping below 86..thankfully its supposed to stay warm for awhile now.

 

[waterdrop]

Wow, that's great about the drop speed of your ammonia! You're making me want to go test mine right now, and gee, I could, because Oliver is up late for "Middle School Madness" LOL.

Too bad the nitrites are showing themselves, hope that goes away..

And hey, didn't you ever make your heater decision? I thought the member who suggested getting a new more powerful heater and saving the current underpowered one as a backup had the best idea among us.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[LionessN3cubs]

Wow, that's great about the drop speed of your ammonia! You're making me want to go test mine right now, and gee, I could, because Oliver is up late for "Middle School Madness" LOL.

Too bad the nitrites are showing themselves, hope that goes away..

And hey, didn't you ever make your heater decision? I thought the member who suggested getting a new more powerful heater and saving the current underpowered one as a backup had the best idea among us.

~~waterdrop~~

unfortunately money made the decision for me about the heater. I really just can't shell out the extra 25 bucks unless I take it out of the fishy fund and I really didnt want to do that. If the temp hadn't warmed up yesterday, and supposed to stay warm..I'd have done it, but money is just real tight right now.

 

[LionessN3cubs]

Testing at 8:30 am this morning shows:

Ammonia 1.0
Nitrite .50

18 hours after last ammonia add of 4 ppm

 

[waterdrop]

OK Lioness, I just stepped out the back door facing north and waved my arms some, directing some of our warm air up your way to PA.

 

[LionessN3cubs]

OK Lioness, I just stepped out the back door facing north and waved my arms some, directing some of our warm air up your way to PA.

Thankkks LOL.

I think Im just plain going to have to shuck out the money for the bigger heater :::sigh:::

 

[waterdrop]

wish I could send you a heater but I only have the one on oliver's tank and no backup

we have the air conditioner on this morning - maybe some of this air will move north, seriously!

 

[LionessN3cubs]

wish I could send you a heater but I only have the one on oliver's tank and no backup

we have the air conditioner on this morning - maybe some of this air will move north, seriously!

well I went this morning and got the bigger heater. I got a 100 watt visitherm ..hopefully its big enough to keep it at a higher temp than 84...

 

[LionessN3cubs]

UGH


24 hours and ammonia still reads 1.0...the same as has since the 12 hour mark. I SO hope that the tank temp only being 82-84 is the reason for this. It seems like during the day when my temp was up at 88 because it was warm outside (and in here obviously) that I processed just fine, but last night it cooled down and now the bacteria are sluggish. Does that make sense as to what could happen? I hope adding the new stronger heater perks them back up.