Biomax

[bitteraspects]

as you are apparently having a tough time with the translation, let me try to explain.

first, im jot going to warrant your comment about "arsenic, lead, and chlorine" with a response, as it is only a filed attempt to make a point, and is even further off topic then the initial subject of chemical additives.

in regards to ammonia, you're right, the chemical itself doesn't change. but that was never the subject at hand. the concentration, more then anything, is what was being discussed. i never even went into the additives often found in bottled ammonia (more so the household ones found in hardware stores and such). by using a natural ammonia additive such as decomposing food/ MP/ etc. (or however you chose to do a fishless cycle), you can just as easily, if not MORE easily, control the amount of ammonia in the tank at all times. also, there are no tests that prove detrimental effects of urea, and trimethylamine, and hypoxanthine, and in what concentrations. so while it may be an attempt to make a point, its moot without documented data. the MP/ fish food method is used very commonly in the hobby, and with no ill effects due tho these trace chemicals. with concentrated ammonia, it is much easier to overdose, and have detrimental effects to the bacteria colonies.

and all that aside, that was never even the topic. if you would take the time to read back to the top, you'd see the topic was the media the OP bought, and nothing more. the subject of chemical additives was an opinion posted by myself, and for whatever reason other people decided to derail the thread to discuss this subject which had absolutely nothing to do with the question posted by the OP.

i personally never suggest using this method, but other people may feel differently. i dont use bottled chemicals in my tanks (with the rare exception of medications such as melafix/etc.)

furthermore, i never said this is the method i use, so your attacks about "if you are so concerned about "other things" in your tank, why would you let that food break down into things other than just ammonia? You are going to have urea, and trimethylamine, and hypoxanthine... so on and so fourth", are to no point at all. i dont use this method, so none of this applies to me. but thatns for trying.


now, rather then further derail this topic for no reason, perhaps "we" should stick to the OP's initial question

 

[Bignose]

Threads flow and ebb back and forth. Somethings things come up that aren't directly related to a the original post. That's just the nature of human conversation -- and when these other parts of the discussion do come up then they can be replied to. The forum would be far, far duller if you could reply only to the OP and not the other posts that have been made. If the following posts stray too far from the original post, then we split the thread. It is my opinion that we haven't reached that point yet, that while the topics being discussed aren't specifically in the OP, they are tangent to it and the conversation has flowed nicely.

I don't need your help to moderate, thank you very much.

You can find bottled ammonia that is nothing but ammonia and distilled water. Often a chelating agent is added, but that is harmless as it is added simply to allow the ammonia and water to remain more stable when mixed together. Yes, often you will find perfumes and surfactants and soaps, but that why you read the label before you buy. It really is just that simple. And then, you use simple household measuring devices to accurately measure what you are putting in. Things like tablespoons and teaspoons. I used an eyedropper. These aren't that hard to find and use, and if you follow the "add some and then test" method, you can very accurately figure out just how much to add each day. It isn't that hard at all.

My comment about lead, arsenic and chlorine is in direct response to your apparent attitude that anything in a bottle is bad and anything in nature is good. When, obviously, there is plenty of bad stuff in nature, too. That is all.

Also, there is no difference between "natural ammonia" and "bottled ammonia"!!. It is all NH3. Period. There is no reason to keep calling them something different.

Also also, how can it be easier to keep the concentration of ammonia where you want it by adding a shrimp that will decompose into an unknown quantity of ammonia?!? You can either measure with a teaspoon and add exactly how much you want or hope that exactly 1 shrimp turns into the concentration you want. Measuring seems far more accurate to me.

 

[bitteraspects]

apparently you still dont get it, and its pointless to further explain. thanks anyway.

 

[Spanerman]

apparently you still dont get it, and its pointless to further explain. thanks anyway.

(edited out part)

Fishless cycling IS the safest and most humane way to cycle a tank, period!

Edited out rude comment. I don't want to have to close this thread, so let's keep it clean everybody.

Bignose

 

[rdd1952]

and if "accidently" or otherwise dosed improperly, ammonia levels will kill everything in your tank. bottled concentrated ammonia is easy to over dose, however natural methods do not allow for this.
again, there is absolutely no reason for using bottled chemicals.

As has been previously mentioned, ammonia is ammonia no matter where it comes from. There is absolutely no arguing that measuring bottle ammonia is more accurate than throwing a shrimp or fish flakes or what ever in the tank. If it is standard bottled ammonia, then you can almost guarantee that 1ml of ammonia per 5 gallons of water will get you 5 ppm of ammonia. Can you say the same thing for a shrimp. If you accidentally overdose, just do a water change. It's a fishless cycle so nothing in the tank to kill. You certainly don't intentionally add ammonia, either bottled or otherwise, to a take with fish in it.

As for the original question, simply setting the tank up and letting it run will do nothing to establish beneficial bacteria in your filter. The bacteria need ammonia and nitrite to survive (and to develop). If there is no ammonia source, then the bacteria will never develop. Sure there may be a minute amount but certainly not enough to support a fish load. As also mentioned, the bacteria in a bottle products are pretty much useless. I have tried most of them and seen no benefit from them.