Betta sp. Jade ''Green'' questions

[betta4ever!]

Hey. I'm considering getting a Betta sp. Jade pair, and I have some questions.
1) Will they breed in my params? Ph 6, Gh 4, Kh 3. If not, should I do distilled or just not get them at all? RO unit is not an option, please don't try to convince me to get me one (lol I've had this happen...) as it does not depend on me but on my parents, and they won't allow.
2) Sand, gravel, peat or bare pottom with thick leaf litter?
3) Better to have many plants or many botanicals? I'll do a lot of both, but what should I use the most? I'm guessing botanicals, but want to make sure.
4) I'd be glad to hear any tips you might have for breeding them!
@Crispii (I know you've been busy lately but I needed to tag you lol )

 

[betta4ever!]

Anddd forgot one as always lol
5) Would Ada Amazonia ver. 2 make a quite noticeable change in my acidity? The 3l bag is 20 euros and I'm absolutely not wanting to spend that much money for no reason...

 

[ChasingFish]

Hey. I'm considering getting a Betta sp. Jade pair, and I have some questions.
1) Will they breed in my params? Ph 6, Gh 4, Kh 3. If not, should I do distilled or just not get them at all? RO unit is not an option, please don't try to convince me to get me one (lol I've had this happen...) as it does not depend on me but on my parents, and they won't allow.
2) Sand, gravel, peat or bare pottom with thick leaf litter?
3) Better to have many plants or many botanicals? I'll do a lot of both, but what should I use the most? I'm guessing botanicals, but want to make sure.
4) I'd be glad to hear any tips you might have for breeding them!
@Crispii (I know you've been busy lately but I needed to tag you lol )

Will they breed in your parameters? Probably, your parameters look okay to me.
The bigger question for me is, what will you do with all the babies? Do you have a grow out tank for them? What size is your tank (that I assume the pair will be bred in), and do you have a separate tank to move the female into once the eggs have been spawned?
As far as the substrate (or no substrate), I think solely for purpose of breeding, bare bottom with some leaf litter (like one or two) is prob best, I do believe many leaf botanicals (especially jackfruit leaves and guava leaves) are helpful for fish health and even offer a source of food (with the nutritious slime stuff that grows on the leaf) for the newly hatched babies. I wouldn't go heavy leaf litter because you want to keep a clean environment/clean water.
Some floating plants and low water flow, will help the male establish his bubble nest, provide shade and privacy, and help keep water clean.

 

[betta4ever!]

Will they breed in your parameters? Probably, your parameters look okay to me.
The bigger question for me is, what will you do with all the babies? Do you have a grow out tank for them? What size is your tank (that I assume the pair will be bred in), and do you have a separate tank to move the female into once the eggs have been spawned?
As far as the substrate (or no substrate), I think solely for purpose of breeding, bare bottom with some leaf litter (like one or two) is prob best, I do believe many leaf botanicals (especially jackfruit leaves and guava leaves) are helpful for fish health and even offer a source of food (with the nutritious slime stuff that grows on the leaf) for the newly hatched babies. I wouldn't go heavy leaf litter because you want to keep a clean environment/clean water.
Some floating plants and low water flow, will help the male establish his bubble nest, provide shade and privacy, and help keep water clean.

I think that's how breeding works for Betta Splendens. In the Coccina Complex, you don't need to remove the parents, they can grow alongside their parents. And the agression is not severe, at least in my limited experience with them.

 

[GaryE]

So, coccina complex. I would start with sand. I would have live plants, but higher up. You might have to get creative. I would use a larger tank, maybe a 3 footer. Depth isn't important, but they don't usually give their young any problems, and you would want room for a colony. Plan for success, and maybe you'll have it!
I wouldn't use smaller than 24 inches, and 30 or 36 would be better. If it works well, you would have multiple pairs in the same tank, and it would become a beautiful set up in time.
Your water is a start. See how it goes, and modify if there are many failed spawns. The eggs will tell you.
I would use Cryptocorynes, and have them at various levels. Sonce I'd have a shallow tank, they could be potted or in containers. Light has to be low,with blackwater fish like that. It impedes plant growth, so low light ones only.
Botanicals? I only use things I collect myself. A couple of leaves would do, but beware of Oodinium if you overdo it.

 

[ChasingFish]

I think that's how breeding works for Betta Splendens. In the Coccina Complex, you don't need to remove the parents, they can grow alongside their parents. And the agression is not severe, at least in my limited experience with them.

oh, i'm sorry, i thought that is what your post meant by "Betta sp." (sp. for splendens?), but I see this is in the "non-splendens" area -- which i have no experience with! so i will butt out, but good luck! i am interested in setup mentioned by GaryE above...maybe i will try one too!

 

[betta4ever!]

oh, i'm sorry, i thought that is what your post meant by "Betta sp." (sp. for splendens?), but I see this is in the "non-splendens" area --

Don't worry, it's ok. I think people use ''sp.'' cause they're not oficially described yet.

so i will butt out, but good luck!

Thank you!

i am interested in setup mentioned by GaryE above...maybe i will try one too!

Yes yes yes you won't regret it!

I would use a larger tank, maybe a 3 footer.

Whattt? Who uses a 3 footer for 2 one inch fish? lol. I have a 2,2 footer for my Betta Coccina pair, but this one is only going to be 1 foot.

See how it goes, and modify if there are many failed spawns.

Yeah wellll my Coccinas aren't breeding at all... So getting them to breed is what I'm worrying about...

I wouldn't use smaller than 24 inches, and 30 or 36 would be better. If it works well, you would have multiple pairs in the same tank, and it would become a beautiful set up in time.

Well hope I can achieve such a thing in my 2,2 footer someday... In my 1 foot* 1 foot tank, I've been told by someone who breeds the species that I could also keep 2 or 3 pairs of Jade, so I'd love to achieve that...

Botanicals? I only use things I collect myself.

Me too. Kurrajong pods, platanus leaves, magnolia leaves, alder cones and branches. Could make a great setup with those!

but beware of Oodinium if you overdo it.

Woah. That's new info to me. I've been told that they're very prone to it, but never that tannins could cause it. What I've been told is that the lower the ph is, the more chances there are of them getting it. Could you please explain that a bit?

And thank you very very much for replying!

 

[GaryE]

Tannins don't cause velvet, but I think the parasite, if present, likes decaying organic matter. I have to watch it when I put leaves in, but not so far when I have made tannin tea and added it. I start with quite soft tap. You want the micro-organisms on the leaves, but not all of them. I have really cut back in how many I use and how long I use them for. In warm tanks, I'm extra cautious.

Tank size? I take a long view, but I have fish I have continuously bred since 1992. I believe coccinae complex can easily hit 5 years, in lifespan so if they do, how many do you think you could have by then?

Starting with a small tank is fine, but once you get to 2 or 3 pairs in there, you tend to take your foot off the gas. You stop trying to breed them. Then, the problem or issue of their conservation status pops up. If you like them, don't ever count on finding them again, or on them even existing in a few years. And so, if I wanted to see them for ore than one generation, I'd think larger. Large tank large fish is a false rule.

 

[betta4ever!]

Tannins don't cause velvet, but I think the parasite, if present, likes decaying organic matter. I have to watch it when I put leaves in, but not so far when I have made tannin tea and added it. I start with quite soft tap. You want the micro-organisms on the leaves, but not all of them. I have really cut back in how many I use and how long I use them for. In warm tanks, I'm extra cautious.

Well that's really interesting... and worrying. Definitely good to know though.

Tank size? I take a long view, but I have fish I have continuously bred since 1992. I believe coccinae complex can easily hit 5 years, in lifespan so if they do, how many do you think you could have by then?

I'd definitely be giving away most all of the offspring. Very few people keep them in Greece unfortunately, but I know quite a large number of hobbyists that are interested in them.

Starting with a small tank is fine, but once you get to 2 or 3 pairs in there, you tend to take your foot off the gas. You stop trying to breed them. Then, the problem or issue of their conservation status pops up.

True enough I guess...

If you like them, don't ever count on finding them again, or on them even existing in a few years.

I really really like them. I'd like to have a huge huge huge tank just for them. I'd love that. But you see, my parents won't let me go bigger. They say that I either keep them in this tank or not get them at all. I really really want to have a fishroom that is only Coccina complex, and breed them and then sell the offspring to hobbyists. But unfortunately, I can't even do a 3 footer right now...

Large tank large fish is a false rule.

Glad to think I'm not the only one who thinks that! lol.

 

[GaryE]

Then let's revise the advice.

Use a smaller tank, and find a lot of interested aquarists who would like to have fry if you get some.

There.

 

[betta4ever!]

Then let's revise the advice.

Use a smaller tank, and find a lot of interested aquarists who would like to have fry if you get some.

There.

Haha sounds about right
I'll start experimenting with distilled to be prepared... (without fish obviously lol)
Artemia nauplii and infusoria will be good for the fry, right? I can't find any other live foods, I tried to do that potato thing where you burry a potato in soil and then you have a starter lol, ended up with some brown bugs instead...

 

[Rocky998]

So you decided on the species you're getting I take it?
I looked them up! Their a gorgeous species of betta fish!

(Sorry I can't really answer any questions. I think everyone has already answered everything )

 

[GaryE]

I would use artemia. Again, carefully, because dead artemia also seem popular with our softwater parasite friends.

You may not need distilled. I always like to check my info, just in case I'm steering you wrongly. I just found an article online from Tropical Fish Hobbyist mag, written by Mike Hellwig on the coccina complex. It says a lot of what I said, but in more depth (he liked 30 inch tanks). I would search for it and give it a read. Mike is a really respected aquarist. He talked about water in the piece, and what he says in interesting.

Most of my experience is with licorice gouramis, Parosphromenus. He seems more focused on small bettas. They are all very similar in their demands.

 

[betta4ever!]

So you decided on the species you're getting I take it?

Yeah I guess! Cute, gorgeous, intelligent, and, you know, have a great attitude, lol

I looked them up! Their a gorgeous species of betta fish!

To they truly are!

would use artemia. Again, carefully, because dead artemia also seem popular with our softwater parasite friends.

Ughhh I hate velvet!! It seems to be everywhere with wilds!!

You may not need distilled. I

But good to experiment anyway!

I just found an article online from Tropical Fish Hobbyist mag, written by Mike Hellwig on the coccina complex. It says a lot of what I said, but in more depth (he liked 30 inch tanks). I would search for it and give it a read. Mike is a really respected aquarist. He talked about water in the piece, and what he says in interesting.

I think I've read that. I'll go check it out again. I actually think I read it again yesterday lol. Might be a diferent article though... I don't remember anything about 30 inch, but 30 cm (well it was 30 inch woops), so could be a different article.

Most of my experience is with licorice gouramis, Parosphromenus. He seems more focused on small bettas. They are all very similar in their demands.

Yeah those are in the bucket list also, maybe in the future...

 

[betta4ever!]

The lfs said it was the last day to order... I just had to, lol. Hope they arrive safely and give me lots of fry...