Betta Problem

[littlest]

I posted this in the betta forum but thought I might get more response here. This is what I posted:

HI, I hope someone can help me with my betta Galileo,

I've only had him a couple of weeks. A few days after I got him I posted because he wasn't very active. Modaz advised me to do daily water changes.
I have to admit I've not been doing them everyday (I'm not here everyday) but every 2 or 3 days. He generally perked up a bit and got used to me.

It's been a while since the last water change (4 days maybe). Last night he was nice and active though, swimming around, and seemed fine.

This morning I woke up and he was lying flat on his side on the bottom of the bowl. I've never seen a betta lie flat on his side, even when resting they aren't normally flat on their sides.

Did an immeadiate test. Ammonia =0, nitrite = 1 (it's a cycling tank).

Changed 100 per cent of the water, matched temperature, put him back him.

He's just kind of sinking to the bottom though. It's like he gives up swimming and just sinks. My old betta Archimedes did this a couple weeks before he died. He was old though, I've only just got this one.

The other thing is his face is quite yellow. Definately more yellow than yesterday. It's not like he's got something yellow on him, it's like his skin has gone yellow, like jaundice. (His face is normally a pinky/fleshy colour).Any ideas?

If it was just the nitrite, how long after a water-change would you expect him to perk up (It's only been ten minutes so far)


Edit: sorry forgot tank details:

Glass bowl containing 10 litres of water
Heated to about 79F
Filtered with low-flow filter (which is still cycling)
Only thing used other than water is Prime dechlorinator
Eats: Hikari Bio-Betta pellets
A betta flake
ocassional brine shrimp


Also, I tried to feed him some pea but he wasn't interested. He wasn't interested in his normal food either.
I'm not at home now, so I don't know if he has improved. When I left he was mostly lying down, sometimes with his bum on the ground and his head pointing up.

 

[WILDER]

Lying flat and to onside can be a sign of a bacterial infection.
Bad water quality has just took its toll on him.
We can go yellow if are liver is not right, maybe the same thing with fish I don't know.

 

[littlest]

would you recommend treating with an anti-bacterial med then?

 

[WILDER]

What is his breathing like as if its laboured the med could kill him.

 

[littlest]

Hi Wilder, I replied in my other post in the betta forum, but thought I'd copy and paste it here too:
(sorry for having 2 near-identical threads by the way, I just needed some urgent help at the time)

Thnanks for all your help. Unfortunately he was dead by the time I got home from work tonight.
Still a little stumped as to why. I realise the nitrite was unacceptably high at 1, but it was so sudden. Last night he was very active, this morning lying on his side.
And I've heard again and again about people with bettas in unfiltered tanks only changing the water once or twice a week. I was doing it more often yet he died very quickly.

If anyone's got any thoughts or opinions on what it is I'd still be interested. One thing I need to think about is if I need to disinfect the tank with bleach or not.

The yellow isn't fluffy at all, nor does it look like he's dusted with anything. It doesn't look like there is something on his skin, but his skin has actually turned yellow. It reminds me very much of a jaundice kind of yellow like you see in humans.

When I came home tonight I saw that his belly is distended and also yellow. Pretty sure that wasn't the case this morning.
The swelling is where females usually get eggy.

oh, and there weren't any signs of flicking or rubbing, but this morning, just before I left for work, I noticed his breathing was laboured and everytime he breathed with his gills he opened and closed his mouth slightly too.

any thoughts as to what it might have been, and on whether I should disinfect with bleach before using the tank again, much appreciated.

 

[scooterchick]

Yip, 'new tank syndrome' got him. Poor water quality leading to stressed fish, leading to failing immune system which put him at the mercy of all the bacteria in your tank.

Bleach the tank, rinse it well and either do a fishless cycle or get some filter media from an established tank before putting any new fish in it.

Good luck!

 

[WILDER]

R.I.P. Bless him.

 

[littlest]

Yip, 'new tank syndrome' got him. Poor water quality leading to stressed fish, leading to failing immune system which put him at the mercy of all the bacteria in your tank.

Bleach the tank, rinse it well and either do a fishless cycle or get some filter media from an established tank before putting any new fish in it.

Good luck!

The only thing is that it was so quick. Nitrite was high for one day max. Since I had him ammonia was never over 0.25, and nitrite only appeared within a day before he died. Within seven hours (whilst I was asleep) he went from very active, eating, alert, not-yellow, to lying flat on his side with laboured breathing and yellowed skin.

 

[scooterchick]

Yip, 'new tank syndrome' got him. Poor water quality leading to stressed fish, leading to failing immune system which put him at the mercy of all the bacteria in your tank.

Bleach the tank, rinse it well and either do a fishless cycle or get some filter media from an established tank before putting any new fish in it.

Good luck!

The only thing is that it was so quick. Nitrite was high for one day max. Since I had him ammonia was never over 0.25, and nitrite only appeared within a day before he died. Within seven hours (whilst I was asleep) he went from very active, eating, alert, not-yellow, to lying flat on his side with laboured breathing and yellowed skin.

One of the disadvantages of small tanks is that when there;s a problem it can have rapid devstating results, whereas you have much more time to react in a big tank. Any amonia at all can kill a fish, the nitrite is the next step in the cycling stage so you were far from being cycled. Betta's are not hardy fish and can't cope with a cycling tank, as you've discovered to your cost. Really sorry for your loss. As I said in previous post, do a fishless cycle before getting anotehr fish and you won't have any future problems. Might be wrth also thinking about a bigger tank?

 

[littlest]

I'm not disagreeing with you scooterchick, it's just that an awful lot of bettas are kept in tanks that don't have filters, let alone cycled. I'm just confused as to how those bettas survive (and often thrive) when my betta died within hours of poor water quality. I was testing almost everyday, and doing 100% water changes when anything was 0.25. The tank isn't a bad size for a betta. Alot are kept in 1gallon and only get weekly or twice-weekly water changes with no filter at all.

While doing a fishless cycle is obviously a good idea, it won't necessarily mean that it will be OK as a lot of bettas won't tolerate a filter anyway.

The next betta I'm getting is actually going in a different tank. 15 litres and I am fishless cycling it. So I'm not ignoring your advice, just questioning how so many other bettas do well in worse conditions.

I'm sure the water quality contributed to my betta's demise, but I'm far from convinced it was the only factor at play.

 

[scooterchick]

I'm not disagreeing with you scooterchick, it's just that an awful lot of bettas are kept in tanks that don't have filters, let alone cycled. I'm just confused as to how those bettas survive (and often thrive) when my betta died within hours of poor water quality. I was testing almost everyday, and doing 100% water changes when anything was 0.25. The tank isn't a bad size for a betta. Alot are kept in 1gallon and only get weekly or twice-weekly water changes with no filter at all.

While doing a fishless cycle is obviously a good idea, it won't necessarily mean that it will be OK as a lot of bettas won't tolerate a filter anyway.

The next betta I'm getting is actually going in a different tank. 15 litres and I am fishless cycling it. So I'm not ignoring your advice, just questioning how so many other bettas do well in worse conditions.

I'm sure the water quality contributed to my betta's demise, but I'm far from convinced it was the only factor at play.

You're could be right, it's more than possible the fish was weak already, it's always a chance when you buy a fish, you don'tt know the previous conditions, where it's came from, how long it's been in transportation, what the conditions of transport were like etc. I personally think betta's get a hard time being kept in such small tanks, if only for the reason that it's much harder to regulate temperature in a small tank.

I don't know if they're truly happy in wee tiny tanks, they might survive but do they really thrive? At least you know you're going to have a happier fish than some other poor unfortnates.

 

[nicnak]

my betta died today and i only bought him on sat