Betta-Oodinum? Puffeye? Ich? Bacteria?

[helwergles]

Hey!

Please, I once again need your help.

Until last week, my betta was just fine in his 5 gallon aquarium with thermostat (26ºC), Aquaclear20 Filter. The pH has been 7,2 for a while, now (no matter what I do, I cannot keep it down to 7,0, even though there is a natural log in the aquarium), 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites.

Then I noticed it began to get a little pale and became more and more quiet. Until yesterday, it was eating just fine, but not pooping (it has always had a hard time pooping, dunno why, since I always feed him with Bettamin flakes, not those little balls).

And then today I came home from work and I noticed that one of his eyes is swollen (here you can kinda see the difference between one eye and the other - http/picasaweb.goo...352175997296578 ) and there is now a kind of a bruise on his cheek, on the same side of the swollen eye (pics below). The other side is just normal. And then he wouldn't eat!!!

And there is also a very thin white line hanging below his belly (that's why I'm also thinking ich or Oodinium). Therefore, I raised the water temperature to 31ºC and covered the aquarium, because I heard it's almost impossible for the virus or bacteria to reproduce significantly in these conditions.

Here are some other pics, where you can see the grayish eye and the "bruise" on the face:


http/picasaweb.goo...352191817196898

http/picasaweb.goo...352201637481938

http/picasaweb.goo...354959372422994

http/picasaweb.goo...352171592800290

His fins are moving well and he can swim easily so far.


Can anyone please help me find out what is wrong with my first and one and only fish? I'm a total newbie, and my fish really needs your expertises to survive!!!!

Thanks in advance for taking time to look into my fish's condition! =)


Regards,
Helena

 

[Athena]

Sorry, I wasn't able to view any of the pics you posted. Not sure why.

Anyway, a swollen eye is known as popeye which is a bacterial disease.

Not sure I understand what you mean by "thin white line hanging below his belly" - I take it it's not stringy poop? If he had Ich you would see his body covered in tiny white "salt-grain" spots.

Do you have any anti-bac medication you can treat him with?

Regards - Athena

 

[WILDER]

Pics are not working for me either.

The white line of the fish not quite sure what you mean. Does the line look like tiny litte spots all joined up.
Any signs of flicking and rubbing, darting, excess mucas, laboured breathing.

Bruising on fish can be due to injury, fighting, septicemia.

You also need to improve the fish diet with some frozen foods like daphnia and brime shrimp, green veg.
If the fish is still eating feed some shelled peas.

Wondering with one eye being swollen and bruising if he get stuck in something in the tank.
Is there anything in the tank that he could get stuck in?

 

[helwergles]

Hi, thanks for your help!

by a "white line" I meant like a string, like velvet disease, but it's really thin and doesn't show in the pictures.

His eye is still swollen and covered by some grayish lime. I've also noticed that his breathing is not normal, even though I've kept the filter on.

No, the fish is not eating... He hasn't eaten since Monday, and I'm really worried about it. And besides all the symptoms I've described, his mouth is swollen too.

I've just ordered some frozen brine shrimp along with a medication called Sera Oodinopur, because I have a rather strong feeling he has been suffering from velvet disease. Yesterday, I added a tinsy bit of antibiotics to his water. I'll replace some of that water with fresh water before adding the new meds. Let's hope it works.

I just took some new pictures. Hope you guys can see these ones, and since they're at the same album of the older ones, maybe you can see those too:

http/picasaweb.google.com/helwergles/DerrickTheFish#5525057363558198450

http/picasaweb.google.com/helwergles/DerrickTheFish#5525057371415091682

http/picasaweb.google.com/helwergles/DerrickTheFish#5525057378723709714

 

[helwergles]

The white line of the fish not quite sure what you mean. Does the line look like tiny litte spots all joined up.
Any signs of flicking and rubbing, darting, excess mucas, laboured breathing.

Bruising on fish can be due to injury, fighting, septicemia.

Wondering with one eye being swollen and bruising if he get stuck in something in the tank.
Is there anything in the tank that he could get stuck in?

Well, no signs of flicking and rubbing (even though I don't know if I'd be able to recognize them). The line (string) is really small and looks like some sort of cotton string. Excess mucas, well, only around his eye. Laboured breathing, yes. The scales of his face look a bit "dry" and stiff, but his body is pretty normal. Everything is normal, except the right side of his face and the heavy breathing.

There is no possibility of fighting.

And there is (was) one only place that i think he could possibly maybe get stuck in, but the only time I've seen him in this place was after he was already sick. It's a kind of hole on the log I keep in the aquarium, like a dark little cave, but he never ever cared about it during the whole 2 months the log has been in there. It would be a better hideout place than the "clay log" he usually sleeps and hides in, so maybe that's why he chose to visit it only after he got sick.

 

[helwergles]

He ate the brine shrimp!!!! =D

 

[Athena]

Hi - managed to view that last lot of pics. Oh dear, yes, he's definitely got popeye, plus various other bacterial disease indications...a large section of his body looks to be a greyish colour which could be Velvet, as you suspected, or it may be body rot...his increase breathing rate...all are bacterial symptoms.

I'm not familiar with the medication you're using but hopefully it will treat the whole range of problems. I know that Waterlife Myxazin is an anti-bac that covers popeye, body rot, fin rot, tail rot, velvet disease etc and very effective.

Yes, Bettas do love live or frozen baby brine shrimp and bloodworms, so it's a good idea to make that a regular thing, maybe once or twice a week, to give him a varied diet (and also once a week a tinsy bit of squashed pea to help his digestion).

Other than that, the key to preventing bacterial disease is a stress-free environment for the fish. That means (in the case of male Bettas), a decent size tank with cycled filter, good water quality, no tankmates (or very few well chosen & compatible fish depending on whether your Betta is tolerant of tankmates), a good varied diet that includes some live or frozen food, a quiet filter with the output level turned down (so that it's not a raging torrent), a heater, no noisy air pumps near the tank, some live or silk plants for them to rest on, no ornaments with small hidey holes they can get stuck in, no sharp edges that could rip fins...and they thrive on lots of attention!

Regards - Athena

 

[WILDER]

If you added antibiotics they will wipe all the beneifical bacteria out in the filter.
What's the name of the med?
I would isolate him and use the full dose of antibiotics.

Columanris can also show itself in a greyish slime on the body. Columnaris has many disguises.

 

[helwergles]

Oh, his stats!

Ph: 7.2 (eternally so, no matter what I do it's always like that)
Nitrites: 0
Ammonia: 0
Nitrates and GH = my test kit doesnt include those tests, I'll buy them separately soon, but they're quite expensive here
Aquarium size: 20l (5 gallons)
Temperature: 30ºC (It's usually 26ºC, but I raised it since he got sick) - Thermostat always on
Filter: Aquaclear 20 (installed about 2 months ago), on 24/7
White light on during the day.
2 Boyu plastic plants (I'll buy silk plants as soon as I find them), 1 cylindrical "clay log" and 1 natural log (none of them are new in the tank) and natural gravel.

He lives all by himself.

The aquarium was cycled before I moved the fish into it.

He ate some more brine shrimp today and he's staaarting to look a bit better. About the antibiotics killing the bacteria in the filter, well, I'll have to cycle his aquarium again soon anyway, because I'll move to another apartment in a month or so, so I'll have to throw all the water away, and then it will be about time I buy a refil set for the filter, so... Now I'm thinking of using one of those products for instant cycling... do you recommend it?

This is the product I've been using since yesterday: http/www.sera.de/fileadmin/gbi/sera_omnipur_36.03_int.pdf (

Thanks for your help! I really, really appreciate it, on behalf of my first and dear betta!

 

[Athena]

Hello again

Just spotted something in your last comments that had me worried...you mention that when you move home, it will be about time to buy a refill set for the filter...

Have you been changing the filter sponges at all since the first time you cycled the tank?

You shouldn't need to change filter sponges for years. And even when they reach the point of falling apart you shouldn't replace them completely, always keep a proportion of the old sponge to seed the new filter with.

As for the tank water, you could replace it all and so long as you haven't changed the filter sponges, your tank would still be ok and cycled with the mature media in it. The water holds no value as far as mature media goes. All the good bacteria are in your filter sponges and some are in the substrate/on tank objects.

You may get told at your LFS to change your filter sponges every month...but ignore that as it's very bad advice - basically they need to sell their stock and even on the manufacturers instructions they will tell you to change the sponge regularly...of course, to make more sales!

If you do change your sponges entirely, you will just be left with an uncycled tank.

Oh, one last thing to check with you - when you began medicating, did you remove the carbon sponge from your filter?

Regards - Athena

 

[WILDER]

Thanks for the update.

 

[helwergles]

Oh, one last thing to check with you - when you began medicating, did you remove the carbon sponge from your filter?

Regards - Athena

Thanks for your reply, Athena! I'd never know that what the filter manual says was actually bad advice! It's my first fish, I'm a total newbie, but I'm trying my best to take good care of him. And since I don't have any experience at all, I am instinctively prone to trust in manuals... my LFS sellers, them I don't trust so much anymore.

And by carbon sponge, do you mean that carbon cushion? Anyway, no, I didn't. Should I have removed it?? Will do it right now before medicating him again ;-)

Today he's swimming a bit rapidly and in a kind of funny, shaky way, as if he was restless. Maybe he's getting annoyed of being sick... I don't know. He swims, swims, swims... and stops near the surface, either hiding behind his plant or just anywhere =/

Even though he ate the tinsy bits of peas I fed him with (which is a quite messy thing to do - I'll have to siphon the gravel later because of that!), I'm worried... I've never seen him swimming like this before. His eye is just as big and the scales on the right side of his face can be seen from above, as if they were pineconing... but not more than before today, though.

Again, thanks VERY MUCH for all your help and attention!

 

[WILDER]

it's not sounding good i'm afraid. He needs treating with a bacterial med.

Was he flicking and rubbing.

As bleached out patches can also be columnaris.

 

[helwergles]

it's not sounding good i'm afraid. He needs treating with a bacterial med.

Was he flicking and rubbing.

As bleached out patches can also be columnaris.

Yeah, I've been treating him with antibiotics and with this medication (http/www.sera.de/fileadmin/gbi/sera_omnipur_36.03_int.pdf) - I think it's the best available in Brazil, or at least one of the best - since Wednesday, and no great changes. The only difference was that he started eating again - he hadn't been eating since Monday =/

I fed him with brine shrimp and de-shelled peas.

Anyway, I didn't see any flicking or rubbing, but I've been out a lot this week.

He's now hiding between the thermostat and the fishtank glass near the surface. I think he pooped a little, but his anal cavity is still a bit swollen and pale + reddish (it would be originally light blue).

Thanks a bunch for all the support you guys have been giving me ;-) Let's keep our fingers crossed.

 

[WILDER]

Does the box instructions list the ingredients in the med.