Betta-Oodinum? Puffeye? Ich? Bacteria?

[helwergles]

Does the box instructions list the ingredients in the med.

Yep!

http/picasaweb.google.com/helwergles/DerrickTheFish#5526139396189143826

Can you tell if this medication is ok? Again, I've been browsing through forums all week and this one was appointed as one of the best commonly available here, in Brazil.

Once again, thanks ;-)

 

[WILDER]

I would do a post in tropical discussion as I have never used the med.
It's not a common med in the uk.

If there no improvement with the fish in a 5 days get back to the board.

 

[Athena]

Oh, one last thing to check with you - when you began medicating, did you remove the carbon sponge from your filter?

Regards - Athena

Thanks for your reply, Athena! I'd never know that what the filter manual says was actually bad advice! It's my first fish, I'm a total newbie, but I'm trying my best to take good care of him. And since I don't have any experience at all, I am instinctively prone to trust in manuals... my LFS sellers, them I don't trust so much anymore.

And by carbon sponge, do you mean that carbon cushion? Anyway, no, I didn't. Should I have removed it?? Will do it right now before medicating him again ;-)

Today he's swimming a bit rapidly and in a kind of funny, shaky way, as if he was restless. Maybe he's getting annoyed of being sick... I don't know. He swims, swims, swims... and stops near the surface, either hiding behind his plant or just anywhere =/

Even though he ate the tinsy bits of peas I fed him with (which is a quite messy thing to do - I'll have to siphon the gravel later because of that!), I'm worried... I've never seen him swimming like this before. His eye is just as big and the scales on the right side of his face can be seen from above, as if they were pineconing... but not more than before today, though.

Again, thanks VERY MUCH for all your help and attention!

Hello again!

Firstly, let's sort out the pea issue I think you may have been putting too much in the tank for him. For one betta you really only need to put a couple of pinhead sized pieces in (and make sure they are eaten), otherwise if you put more than that you will end up with rotting vegetation in there, which could give an ammonia spike. So yes, gravel vac any debris if you haven't done so already.

Back to the filter...I'm not sure what the carbon sponge looks like in that particular filter but it's usually a black sponge or charcoal-like pieces in a bag or carton. The carbon is only really used for specific things like removing residue medications from the tank water. As you don't need it in there on a daily basis (especially NOT if you are medicating your fish) you can always buy an extra piece of sponge (I think your filter uses biomax pieces?) and put that in instead of the carbon.

Now, you say your betta was swimming erratically, shakily, darting about and then hanging at the top by the filter - well, did you check your water stats at that time to make sure there wasn't ammonia showing up (I'm thinking that maybe if there was pea debris in the tank this could have happened). If there was an ammonia spike then this can cause them to swim rather strangely, quickly darting about as they are trying to escape the bad water.

If you do have a test kit, can you test and let us know the results please? If you don't have a test kit then I would advise doing a 50% water change. I know you are medicating and some meds say don't change the water until after the end of treatment - but if there is ammonia in the water this is highly dangerous to the fish. So tackle that and then continue with the rest of the dosage.

And don't worry...we were all newbies at some point in time We learn by experience (often the hard way) and by educating ourselves through reading and researching.

All the best - Athena

 

[helwergles]

Hi, guys,

the ammonia level is still 0.0 (thank God!), but I'm afraid my little pal is getting worse. Yesterday I thought he was doing better, because when I came home in the afternoon, he was swimming around rather normally. But yesterday evening he wouldn't eat his normal food, so I waited until now and tried to feed him brine shrimp, and he wouldn't even care about it. He's looking a bit bloated and apathic and just sits there near the surface, trying to stick his face behind the thermostat. I moved the thermostat away from the corner, and now he's just resting, totally apathic, on top of a plant.

Yesterday he would even swim to the bottom, but now he's just lying still by the surface. Yesterday he looked a little less pale also, but today he's looking almost white, except for his fins and his face.

I'm afraid the illness passed on to the other side of his face (even though mildly) and he's looking rather bloated, even if he has pooped (I've just cleaned the gravel and I found plenty of poop on it, so I think the peas worked out just fine).

Conclusion: he isn't pineconing, but I'm starting to think he might have dropsy, and then I know it's bye-bye. I had my husband go downstairs and buy some Epson Salt anyway (Magnesium sulphate, actually, since they don't sell it as "Epson Salt" here in Brazil).

Let's see how it turns out.

Thanks for the tip about the 2nd sponge, Athena. I'll buy a new one and use it when there's no need to use medications =)

And thanks you all for the help, really!

 

[WILDER]

You do only have the sera med in the tank. That's treats parasites and bacterial infections.

Is there another med in the tank? As need to rule things out.

 

[Athena]

Hi - oh dear, sorry to hear he's getting worse. With dropsy they don't always pinecone and even if they do it is usually at the last stage of the illness.

Are you using both the sera medication and antibiotics together? Just that I was reading up on the sera meds and it says not to use it with anything else.

I guess there's not much you can do now but wait and see if the meds work for him.

Here's hoping for the best - Athena

 

[helwergles]

Hi,

I'm using that Sera medication + a tinsy bit of antibiotics (tetracycline) - I open the pill and take just a bit of the powder inside, mix it with a bit of water and put it into the fish tank. i thought it wouldn't hurt, since I'm not using the full dosis recommended by Sera (It says I should use like 20 drops, but I'm only using 7-8 a day, since I'm also using the antibiotics).

I've been doing 30%-40% water changes every 2-3 days, so as to avoid killing him by overdosis.

The ph is 7.2 (As ALWAYS, I have no idea why I can't make it drop to 7, but I think 7.2 is not too bad for a betta, is it?) and the nitrites are 0. The nitrates I can't measure, and the only test kit I can buy is from sera, but it's tooooo expensive. I'll try to buy it somewhere else today, since I'll have to go downtown.

The water temperature is 31ºC. I added 4 teaspoons of Epson Salt to the water (5 gallons) about 1h ago.

What do you suggest? Should I stop with the antibiotics and use the full 20 drops of medication??

Really, thanks a lot for your help and attention ;-)
Let's keep our fingers crossed.

 

[WILDER]

Antibiotics destroy the beneifical bacteria in the filter.
I know you not using the full dose but your water test results in ammonia and nitrite should of risen.

White milky substance of fish with darting can be toxins, overdose of meds, ph shock, parasites, bacterial.

Are the fish laboured breathing or gasping.

 

[fluffycabbage]

Hi,

I'm using that Sera medication + a tinsy bit of antibiotics (tetracycline) - I open the pill and take just a bit of the powder inside, mix it with a bit of water and put it into the fish tank. i thought it wouldn't hurt, since I'm not using the full dosis recommended by Sera (It says I should use like 20 drops, but I'm only using 7-8 a day, since I'm also using the antibiotics).

I've been doing 30%-40% water changes every 2-3 days, so as to avoid killing him by overdosis.

The ph is 7.2 (As ALWAYS, I have no idea why I can't make it drop to 7, but I think 7.2 is not too bad for a betta, is it?) and the nitrites are 0. The nitrates I can't measure, and the only test kit I can buy is from sera, but it's tooooo expensive. I'll try to buy it somewhere else today, since I'll have to go downtown.

The water temperature is 31ºC. I added 4 teaspoons of Epson Salt to the water (5 gallons) about 1h ago.

What do you suggest? Should I stop with the antibiotics and use the full 20 drops of medication??

Really, thanks a lot for your help and attention ;-)
Let's keep our fingers crossed.

after you do these 30-40% water changes, do you replace the lost medication? (if you add fresh water to 60-70% tank water, then obviously thats going to dilute the amount of meds in the water, so you need to top up)

why is it that the temp is so high, if he doesnt show any sign of ich? if he has columnaris then that will make it worse.

when you added salt, did you mix it up so it dissolved in water first, then poured into tank?

Hows he doing today? Do you have any recent pics?

 

[Athena]

Oh gosh, I hadn't realised you still had the temp up at 31 degrees! I remember you said you upped it cos you thought it was Ich initially. I thought you'd lowered it since realising it wasn't Ich. Ooops! When the temp is high like that it uses up more oxygen in the water. Have you increased aeration in his tank since upping the temp?

Try to bring the temp back down slowly.

And never mix medications together if it says not to on the bottle as that can have adverse effects.

Regards - Athena

 

[WILDER]

I agree. Lower tank temp.
Bacteria multiplys at high temps causing the antibiotic not being able keep up.

 

[helwergles]

Ok, I didn't know. I lowered the temperature at the thermostat down to 28ºC and opened the lid so that the water can cool down faster. Tonight I'll lower it to 26ºC, but I honestly don't think he's going to make it =(

He's almost white-pale, rather bloated and totally apathic.

Since I did a 50% water change, I dropped a few more drops of the medicine, totalizing the 20 suggested by the manufacturer.

Let's see until when he'll resist... I still hope he'll be here for another few years, but he's really not looking good... poor thing

I wish I knew what I did wrong, though, so I wouldn't endanger my next little friend =/

Thanks for everything.

 

[helwergles]

So, guys... below you'll see what are probably his last pics.... he's more bloated than ever, reaaaally struggling to breathe and is now kinda tilting to one side... his beard is half-way out... he's white-pale... for me, it really looks like dropsy.

http/picasaweb.google.com/helwergles/DerrickTheFish#5526932790838670642

http/picasaweb.google.com/helwergles/DerrickTheFish#5526932794613574098


I do understand it's the circle of life and all, but I wish I could spare him all this suffering... I can't just end it myself.

Thanks for all the help you've given me. Even though I'm a total beginner in taking care of fish (he is my very first fish), I really enjoyed the moments of joy he gave me. I do intend to buy another betta and see if I can get it right (or at least "righter") this time... wish me luck!

But I mean it, THANKS A LOT for all your help and attention.

 

[Athena]

Good morning...and so sorry to hear how bad little Derrick is...

Having had a look at those most recent photographs I have a feeling he has blister disease ("Myxosporidiosis"). Could be wrong but that's how it looks now. The second photo shows the side where he appears most affected, plus with the bloating and lethargy, gasping for air at the top etc.

This is a parastitic disease by the way. Not an easy one to treat, unfortunately, and not easy to diagnose early on. Again, I might be wrong but if you have a look on google you will see a better explanation and can make your own judgment on it.

It's not looking very hopeful for him, unless you can find a med that works quickly at this late stage.

Regards - Athena

 

[helwergles]

Oh, thanks for diagnosing him... although it's too late. Last night I found him laying down on the side on the bottom, and now, even though he isn't floating yet, I think he is dead.

Here's a picture. I thought it was dropsy, but what you said makes sense.

http/picasaweb.google.com/helwergles/DerrickTheFish#5527124088689510642

I'm kinda sad, but I bear no weight upon my consciousness, since I did all I could do to take a good care of him and treat him.... I hope he's in the fishes' heaven now, since he was a very good fish.

Thanks for all the help and support. You guys are the best!!


And one last question: how should I clean the fishtank in order to make it suitable for a new betta to move in?


Regards,
Helena