Betta Not Repsonding To Finrot Meds, Please Advise

[doggiebag]

HI Guys...

Duplicate post in fish emergencies forum, there are pics there too sp please see that post for those, but posting here to get advise also.....Link to Fish Emergencies post with pics



I have been an avid reader for a few days here, trying to solve my problem alone and from previous advice, but now need some help and guidance, so here I am.

I bought a Betta from my LFS and he is in a 25litre tank, alone. It is heated to 80f, though rising to 82f in UK heatwave, filtered by an internal filter. It is a new tank so was not cycled.......I know, bad advice from LFS, now I have researched on here I have found this is bad. It has a terracotta pot in there, small soft silicone fake ferns. I live in a very hard water area, tank tests at around the 8.0-8.2 mark.

I have an API liquid test kit. Water is declorinated using Seachem Prime.

The day after I got the fish I noticed a darkened oval patch in the centre of his tail, very small, it must have been there when I bought him but just didn't notice it as he was so actively moving in the LFS tank, he was kept in a tank with other fish (sorry didn't notice what I was only looking at bettas) another betta was in the next tank and they were constantly flaring and swimming up and down the divide..... It was day 2, the day after noticing the dark patch that things really progressed.

It started with tiny pin holes on the tips of his dorsal, caudal and anal fins, within a day those pin holes were larger holes, it looked like his tail was melting.......so I immediately started a course of myxazin and added salt to the water as well.
I called Waterlife after a few days as it did not seem to make much difference. I was told to continue treatment up to 14 days, until I could see definite regrowth. As they tank was uncycled I could water change every few days and remed for that days dose, adding salt too. he said the meds disperse over 24 hours so no need to add previous dose to wc, just that days meds. SO I have followed this advice.......

5 days in to treatment the rot had slowed down, the dorsal and anal fins seemed fine but the tail, although slowed had black edges to where the rot was. So I decided to continue for another 5 days, I am now on day 3 of second course (or day 8 of full round). I had to do a full 100% waterchange as for some reason nitrites were at 1.0 !! HIs last wc was 2 days ago..... Not sure what is happening there either.

Ammonia readings for the past week were 0, then rose over 2 days to 0.25 then dropped to todays reading of 0. Nitrites went from 0 to todays reading of 1.0, it looks like its cycling but it can't be as its only been set up for over a week!! SO have no idea what is causing ammonia to drop and nitrites to rise daily. I have tested tap water and that tests with trace ammonia and no nitrites, 10 nitrates. Cycling can't possibly happen this quickly, can it? Seems odd to go so fast but can't work out what else could be happening.

Anyway, from today I will do daily 50% wc and remed each day for another 2 days, then he has had 2 x 5 day courses.
Today I have noticed the black tail edge is still there, very slowly rotting the tail by a mm a day, very slowed down to before but still worrying that its still there at all byt this stage of meds. The dorsal and anal which looked fine yesterday, today look like there is one pinhole and teeny tiny black edges to tips of rays.

I am really starting to worry that this isn't going to stop. The myxazin can't be working anymore. I intended to continue 2 more days to complete round 2, but what should I do next? Continue to round 3 finishing a 14 days course?

I do have a few meds bought as a precaution, very pleased I did now as I was able to med him as soon as I knew what it was. Here is what I have....
Interpet 9 Internal bac med,
Waterlife Sterazin,
Waterlife Protozin,
melafix (loathe to use this on betta)
and API salt.

Not sure whether to buy Interpet fin rot treatment, is this any different to the myxazin? Not sure whether to buy it next or if the ingredients are the same?
Any suggestions as what to do given the above information? I really don't want to see him die from this.

The betta himself looks happy, he swims well, very active, eating well, stomach nice and slim, not bloated. He is building bubble nests every night, so he doesn't seem too fussed about anything, but still I want to see this rot go and am worried this myxazin may not be working......

I would greatly welcome any advice about this, he is currently happy and has only lost about 0.5cm of tail and only the very tips of anal/dorsal. But it just worries me having the black edge remaining and then a tiny pinhole in dorsal today.

 

[Honeythorn]

Myaxzin has always worked for me in the past without fail. You do have to run the course of it though.

To help your cycle, do y have another mature tank? Or know anyone who has? Because you ca tak media from a mature filter and put it in your own. If you can fill your filter to capacity with used media ( don't wash it ) then you will have an instant cycle.

If you don't have acess to media there is a thread on this site where members wll donate some media to you if they are near enough to post it quickly.

Having a cycled tank wll be a great help as this rising ammonia and nitrites will put a strain on his system, which is the last thing you want when trying to cure disease.


Once the Myaxzin has cleared the finrot, give him a week of clean plain water , no meds, then do a week of Melafix ( slightly underdose) to help kickstart his fins into regrowing. They might not come back perfect but they will grow back.


If the Myaxzin doesn't clear it ( I would be surprised if it doesn't ) then give him a week of clean water, then try the interpet fin rot treatment and see how that goes.

Good luck.

 

[doggiebag]

Hi Honeythorn, thanks for the reply. I don't have any mature tanks, just another one a few weeks into cycling which is going slowly so cannot use that one...it was doing well till I forgot to switch the filter back on after a wc last week, it was off for 5 hours before I noticed and now seem to be cycling from the start again, doh! I have looked at the list for media donation but there is no one that local to me, the closest one I can't PM as I don't seem to be able to use it at the moment, I think you need a minimum post amount or something.....
.
I too am concerned about him being stressed while cycling. I was not trying to cycle really at present, I was just going to do daily wc while he was getting well, then cycle later. Waterlife said to wc every few days so I tested to be sure his water was okay, it jumped from 0.25 to 1.0 overnight, hence the massive wc change today. While he's ill I am happy to hold off cycling if thats better for him and do daily wc of however much he needs, 50%-100%......whatever im advised to do for his health.

I have completed the 5 day course on the bottle, am now on day 3 of second course. Should it not have cleared/improved by now? When you say keep on with myxazin, did you mean the 5 day course as stated on bottle or should I complete 3 courses then so it goes the full 14 days max advised by waterlife customer service and ignore the 5 day on the bottle? I was concerned as the anal fin seemed worse today after 8 days of treating with myxazin and salt. Just want to be sure I am doing the right thing for him.

forgot to add I am also aerating his water all the time while medicating.
There are pics of its progression in the other thread, linked in my first post.

 

[doggiebag]

I have just posted a request for filter media in another section,. so fingers crossed on that one.....

 

[Honeythorn]

Since you've already done it for 8 days you may as well carry on as they advised you to. If it still hasn't worked then switch meds after the weeks rest period.

You are right it should be showing signs of improvement after this time but keep going with it all the same. I would also contact the store you got him from since he was clearly sold with the beginnings of the disease. They should know in case it spreads to their other stock, and if you have no other fish in the tank then there's nothing he could of caught it from at home .

Good luck with the media request, I'd have sent you some myself but sadly you're too far away, it would be dead by the time you got it.

 

[doggiebag]

Since you've already done it for 8 days you may as well carry on as they advised you to. If it still hasn't worked then switch meds after the weeks rest period.

You are right it should be showing signs of improvement after this time but keep going with it all the same. I would also contact the store you got him from since he was clearly sold with the beginnings of the disease. They should know in case it spreads to their other stock, and if you have no other fish in the tank then there's nothing he could of caught it from at home .

Good luck with the media request, I'd have sent you some myself but sadly you're too far away, it would be dead by the time you got it.

Yes, he is alone, glad to hear it's nothing I did, phew. I can now see the beginnings on the photos of the day I got him, but its only visible in the pics when blown up. It has slowed in progress but there wasn't the dark edges there are now. Not sure if the dark edges are the fin rot or just dead tissue........I will continue for another 2 days and see how its going, then I may do a weeks rest with just salt and try something else.....will buy some interpet fin rot med then. Would the internal bac med be worth trying, I read somewhere on here someone uses it for most things with success....

 

[Honeythorn]

Since fin rot isn't an internal bacterial infection I doubt it would do much good really.

Fin rot is usually down to water quailty issues like uncycled tanks and ill kept tanks with infrequent water changes and the stress things like that cause ( not saying this is your fault as you were given the wrong advice, and you have said the shop was not a good one for care )

As you say he's perky and swimming and feeding well, It's step in the right direction. Bettas have been brought back from worse illnesses, so with dilligent care he should pull through.

 

[doggiebag]

Yeah, Im going to do a 50% wc each day and give the meds a bit longer as Wilder seems to think the black is ammonia burn........that is what I was worried about, as long as thats not the finrot then it may be okay for the myxazin a bit longer. He said to use the internal bacs med if myxazin doesn't work, also to soak pellets in garlic juice, tried that but he spits it out, first time he's ever done that lol so he hates garlic ......anyway, will try wc daily and see how we go in a day or two then reassess using the info I have from here. thanks so much for all the help.

 

[tibby25731]

I have used the interpet anti internal bacterial meds for finrot loads now and they do woerk real well for a lot of things, i agree with wilder that the interpet fin rot med is not much cop..... I would be tempted though to just do daily water changes instead to see if that improves things and only use meds again if he takes a turn for the worse. Whilst cycling you really need to stay on top of water changes

 

[doggiebag]

had a good think about it last night and I think I will continue with the myxazin for a few more days, but will water change 50% everyday, adding his days dose after wc. Then I will give him a weeks break on meds with daily water changes adding salt and see how he does. If it comes back during that week then may try the interpet internal bac med, but would rather finish this course and try w/c and salt after that. I don't want to waste all the meds in one go, just in case I really need them later on, don't want it becoming resistant to treatment.(not sure if thats even possible lol)

SO I am going to follow the advice given here and finish up this one and rest him for a bit.

He is really active, eating and happy, his colour is vibrant and he has never shown any signs of feeling ill, like clamped fins etc.
The black part of the tail shown in the pics in other thread, has now died back, leaving just a tiny edge of black. The fin loss has slowed a lot now. Hopefully this final few days of myxazin and a rest period with ultraclean water will help. If it comes back with a vengeance then I will maybe try the next batch of meds, but dont want to bombard the little guy with too much.

Thank you all so very much for your help, it can be very daunting when you face these things with little experience. It is so great to have all your experience and advise to call upon. I am very aware I have a very valuable little life in my hands and I want to do the very best for him, so your help has been fantastic. I will let you know how he gets on.

 

[loraxchick]

id would suggest keeping up the 50% water changes and if you have some using half dose of melafix for a week or two and see if that helps.
in SO many cases, especially when fin condition is concerned, clean water is the best method.
all the best!

 

[Amunet]

id would suggest keeping up the 50% water changes and if you have some using half dose of melafix for a week or two and see if that helps.
in SO many cases, especially when fin condition is concerned, clean water is the best method.
all the best!

Totally agree

 

[doggiebag]

well I've done a 50% today and added last does of myxazin.

From tomorrow Im going to do a 90% wc add carbon to filter for a day to remove last of myxazin then will do daily 50% water changes, was going to add salt, I can add a reduced dose of melafix too, or should I not add salt at all and just melafix? Then was going to monitor progress for a week to see if it gets worse or not.

 

[Honeythorn]

I'd leave it a week before adding Melafix. Or at least 3 days if you're using carbon.

 

[loraxchick]

carbon in your filter should remove meds within 24 hours...remove carbon and do another huge waterchange. give him a rest day and do a 30-50%waterchange and add a HA:F dose of melafix. salt would be beneficial too at that point, but id worry about giving too much at once. if your tank(i dont know about possible tankmates in there and many can not tolerate salt) would tolerate salt i would advise using that first before the addition of melafix. salt makes the water less tolerable to most microbes and just might help with any "residual" microbes. after treating with salt for about a week and monitoring his state, THEN id stop the salt and start the melafix (if you chose...but usually not needed if you are doing frequent water changes to keep clean water...clean water is usually the best treatment of all!).
regards