Betta In Really Bad Shape

[wodesorel]

If anyone can offer any advice - please do so!

I'm having a bacterial infection in my main tank, so I went out to buy some Maracyn Plus on Friday. I never go to this particular store, and when I started to browse through their tanks they had the most beautiful crowntail betta mixes. I haven't seen anything nearly that beautiful and healthy around here before.... So while I knew I probably shouldn't have gotten him, I just had to bring him home! My last betta passed away on Father's Day for unknown reasons - she had been pale and lethargic for about two days - I figured it was just the heat (in the 90's) - but I woke up that Sunday she was already dead and being munched on.

Anyways, I got the new betta home and set him in a half-gallon vase until the treatment of the main tank is over. I was busy on Friday and Saturday, and when I actually sat down to watch him Sunday I noticed that he was missing his right side fin - all that was left were three rays that were only about a third as long as they should be. His right eye was also a little cloudy and had a red ring around it - almost like a black eye. His abdomen was also noticably swollen. By Sunday night his eye was starting to swell, so I started to treat with the Maracyn Plus as it's all I have on hand.

Today (Monday) - his eye looks like it's going to fall off. The right side of his head has all it's scales raised, and part of it is an open sore and I think it's bleeding. He's swimming erratically due to swim bladder problems - his head keeps wanting to raise out of the water to his gills. He's frustrated and is throwing "fits" - swimming in tight circles head over rear. As long as he keeps himself braced against the side of the glass he stays still and can breathe alright.

I have not been able to get him to eat since I brought him home. There also has been no poo in the bottom of the vase. I tried to feed him some frozen pea - no interest. I can't tell if it's that he has absolutely no interest in food, or if it's becase he can't see it or sense it to know that it's there. I've tried five different types of food.

I'm changing the water in his vase twice a day - I bring the water level down til there's just enough left for him in the bottom and then refill it slowly so I'm not disturbing him by netting him every time. The water is of course treated tap, with the right dose of Maracyn Plus already added. He's at room temp, which is always in the high 70's (no A/C).

I'm not giving up on him, but I could use some help on what to do. Thanks.

 

[Spader]

it sounds like pop eye, but im not sure

 

[Loko17]

By the sounds of it, it doesnt seem like he will be able to recover, I would recommend euthinizing him. Sorry

 

[Spader]

actually it may be possible. im not giving up on the platy that i got yesterday whos fins are torn and just sits at the bottom.....

 

[wodesorel]

To me, it seems like a phsyical injury that due to being moved brought out a bacterial infection. Realistically, how long should I wait before I deam him "uncurable". If it's just popeye with swim bladder disease, that's curable, right? If it's internal damage causing the swelling, then that's another matter.

My last betta had dropsy (from me overfeeding her - stupid drunken mistake - I've sworn off alcohol after that) so horribly that I swore it was internal damage from something having burst. She was past pinecone - her scales were perpendicular to her body. And after a week of fresh water and little food, she recovered and lived for another three months with no issues.

Heck, I had a cat (feline, mind you) turn as yellow as this smilie from liver damage that survived with absolutely no lasting damage. The vet and all his staff had given up on her. They made a mistake doing that.

I don't like to give up on any creature until I know, for sure, without any doubt whatsoever, that everything was done to help save it.

 

[Spader]

well, if it lives the night without getting worse, then i think it's cureable. then again, this is the second time ive dealt with disease. but i do read alot lol

 

[Loko17]

I dont think popeye is incurable and neither is a bad case of dropsy, some internal infections can be cured but some can not. It seems this little betta has gotten a kind of worse case scenario if you will. Again I say put him out of his misery. If you dont know how, you take him and put him in a plastic bag of some sort, with water into the freezer, being dark he goes into a dormant state and the water temp steadily drops and stops the poor things heart, totally painless.

 

[wodesorel]

I did that to a snail once, who is already a cold blooded creature - thought it would put him into a dormant "winter" state and then he's just painlessly freeze to death. He was thrashing around as the water froze around him. I've been second guessing the freezing method ever since.

 

[Spader]

yeah dont do that, the ice crystals actually freeze in the fishes body and sometimes they can feel it. heres an article of various ways of putting them down here

 

[red-devil0602]

here is a topic i wrote

Betta Euthanasia

We all know it?s not nice when we have to let go of one of our betas, but it makes it all the worse if we are the ones who have to put them out of their suffering.

The best way I have found in done in two steps
? Put the betta to sleep
? Make sure it doesn?t wake up

This method is often thought of as mixing clove oil and vodka together. This is wrong. Clove oil must be used first, making the betta fall asleep before you add the vodka. Vodka will be very stressful for a betta if not anesthetized.
Eugenol (clove oil) is available at any pharmacy as a cure for toothache. It has been used for many years as an anesthetic for fish during tagging or surgery.
Clove oil puts the betta to sleep and makes sure it feels no pain. Be warned, the betta can still wake if taken out of the clove oil before drowning, by adding the vodka you are making sure the fish dies.

Here is how to euthanise a betta

1. Put the betta in a container of tank water but make sure to measure the amount of tank water and make a note of it. If it is a clear container please put a towel around it to calm the fish.
2. Fill a small jar with tank water but leave a gap at the top. Add 1 drop of clove oil to the jar, put the lid on and shake hard till the water turns a milky white, this means that the oil has mixed with the water. When it has turned white, place about ? of the mixture in with the betta. The betta will begin to fall asleep, leave for about 10 minutes after this it will look dead, but if you watch closely it may be still breathing, if it still alive get the jar and shake again and add the same amount as before and wait again.
3. Once the fish has gone to sleep on the bottom, add 20-25% vodka, i.e. if the fish is in 8oz of water add 2oz of vodka, leave the betta in there for at least 20 minutes
4. After 20 minutes check for gill movement, if you don?t see any within 60 seconds, the betta has died.

It is not essensial to add the vodka with betas as they are air breathers; this means that when they are asleep in the clove oil they would just drown peacefully. I use the vodka for my own peace of mind.

Another method is an anesthetic called Tricaine Methanosulphate (TMS). 1g of TMS in 1 liter of water makes a bath that will put the betta to sleep peacefully.

What not to do.



? One very popular way people suggest is to put the betas in the freezer, where it is said to go slowly to sleep and die without suffering. Obviously someone who has never felt the pain of truly being cold started this. What actually happens is the betta will live for quite a while because it is such a slow method? During this experience a very high level of stress and pain as the cells in it?s body slowly by ice crystals forming in their organs, until too many cells are damaged for the betas life to continue.
? Never flush a live betta down the toilet as this is very cruel, because the fish may survive a long time
? Do not simply take the betta out of water and wait for it to doe as they are air breathers, they will take along time to die by dehydrating.
? Do not drop into hot or cold water since both take a while to work. Both also cause pain and suffering.

The above examples are horrifically very common. Do not under any circumstance use any of these.

British Veterinary Zoological Society

Guidelines for Acceptable Methods of Euthanasia for Zoo, Exotic Pet and Wildlife species
___________________________________________________________
British Veterinary Zoological Society [BVZS], 7 Mansfield Street, London W1M 0AT, UK. http/www.bvzs.org

No. 2: Ornamental Fish
Introduction:
There are many situations where euthanasia (humane destruction; 'putting to sleep') of an animal is necessary. It is essential to the animal's welfare, and a legal requirement, that the method chosen does not cause unnecessary suffering. This document gives Veterinary surgeons and others suggestions on current acceptable methods of euthanasia. The guidelines are for informational use only. They are not exhaustive. Other methods may occasionally be applicable.
Overview:
Euthanasia of fish is a difficult task to those not accustomed to treating these species. Problems arise mainly because of unfamiliarity of the anatomy (which limits access to sites for injection) and physiology (different response to anesthetic drugs). It is difficult to ascertain with certainty that a fish is dead rather than heavily anaesthetized (complicated by the possibility of slow metabolism of anesthetic drugs).
Suggested methods of choice:
The following methods are rapidly effective and straightforward to perform.
? Overdose of a soluble anesthetic agent added to the water (MS222, Benzocaine [in acetone /alcohol], Eugenol [clove oil])
? Intravenous overdose of anesthetic agent, primarily pentobarbitone.
? Trauma sufficient to induce complete and instantaneous loss of brainstem activity (e.g. shooting, captive bolt, massive blunt trauma, cervical dislocation or fracture)
? Dropping into liquid nitrogen to provide near instantaneous complete freezing (individuals less than 1cm max diameter only)
Methods acceptable if methods of choice not possible:
These methods are effective, but involve a prolonged (hours) delay before the animal can be pronounced dead.
? Intracoelomic overdose of pentobarbitone
? Some methods used in commercial fisheries
Methods considered unacceptable:
The following methods have been suggested for ornamental fish euthanasia in the past but should now be considered ineffective or unacceptable:
? 'Asphyxiation' (simple removal from water preventing respiratory exchange)
? Freezing (excepting method suggested above)
? Use of other anesthetic agents added to the water (Pentobarbitone, Isofluorane, Halothane)
? Trauma (other than cranial & cervical trauma as described above)
? Carbon dioxide by non-commercial methods (Alka-seltzer? tablets, soda-stream? carbonation)
Confirming death:
Death (loss of brainstem activity) is difficult to confirm in fish.
Suggested criteria to evaluate include:
? Lack of external reflexes (Movement, response to external stimuli)
? Lack of detectable respiratory activity (no spontaneous opercular movements)
? Lack of detectable cardiovascular activity (Doppler ultrasound, ultrasound, ECG)
Fish which are heavily anaesthetized will have few, if any, outward signs of activity and appear dead by the criteria above yet may regain consciousness (after, e.g. metabolizing or excreting anesthetic drugs).
Methods of ensuring a fish does not regain consciousness include:
? Do not return a fish anaesthetized by in-water methods to fresh water. Leave it in the euthanasia solution or wrap it in towelling soaked in euthanasia solution to maintain anesthesia until death occurs.
? Inject a massive overdose of intracoelomic pentobarbitone once unconsciousness has occurred.
? Once the animal is unconscious and insensitive to external stimuli, perform pithing (physical destruction of the brain tissue) or freeze the carcass.
Information with thanks to
British Veterinary Zoological Society
Fish, tanks and ponds
Kokosgoldfish
Wise geek

 

[wodesorel]

I'm not going to euthanize him just yet.

This morning he's back to swimming OK with no gyration issues whatsoever!!!

He may loose his eye, though. Although I've heard that even eyes this bad can completely recover, so who knows. I've never had popeye before.

Still can't get him to eat, unfortunately. His abdomen is still swollen, but no worse than before.

Here's hoping!

 

[Loko17]

Keep trying and I'm sorry about advising the freezer method as I was misinformed.

 

[wodesorel]

With a fish, it's hard to tell when they feel discomfort. (With a snail, it's a lot easier.) I'm just glad that people have actually given euthanasing fish some serious thought. Perhaps in the future someone will be able to find a sure fire, no question about it, method.

I'm sad to report that the betta did not make it. I found him when I got home from work today. I wish I knew what the underlying problem had been, but at least I know I did everything I could for him.

My last question is how long to wait before getting a replacement? Between this and the last betta dying, I'm sure there's some funky stuff floating around my house now. Does it matter if I wait? Or do the chances of a betta getting an infection lessen with more time? Because let's face it, healthy non-stressed fish don't get sick, but when was the last time you saw a perfect pet-store betta?

 

[Loko17]

If you're planning on keeping one in the same tank I would just change the water and clean everything good and maybe wait a week before you get another one. And i actually just saw a perfect pet store betta, they got her in the day I went and I went to get a female and there she was so i got her and she is happy and healthy in her tank and she is spoiled.