Betta health not good

[Camel]

Hello, and nice to meet you all.  I searched very hard to find a forum to hopefully find some help on my bettas health..

I will just get right to it, sorry if this seems long, but I want to make sure you have all the facts.  So here I go

My girlfriend got me a 20 gal hex tank for christmas.  I let the tank cycle like I was told and did everything the Fish store said before putting any fish into it. The total time the tank was without fish and just water was about 2 1/2 weeks.

My girlfriend got me a nice healthy blue betta.  And this little guy was spunky and extremly friendly "meaning, he would swim up to the glass of the side we were looking at and stare at you until you left, and would dang near eat out of your hand when feeding him"  the food we give him is made by AQUA "culture"  its tiny pellets sorta..  Anyway  the betta loved the big tank and never stopped swimming around from top to bottom.  He loved it..  Now for the downside

He was by himself for about 2 or 3 weeks byhimself and everything was great, then we purchased 2 other fish
1 elephant nose
1 japaness alge eate
The fish store sold me frozen bloodworms to feed the Elephant Nose. The betta like the worms alot and would eat them like crazy " maybe they made him sick"
Both of the new fish are still very healthy but after about a week in the tank together, my bettas fins started to look like "fin rot". The day after i noticed the fins rotting I also noticed whites spots on him which I thought to be "ick", so I treated the tank for 'ICK' by turning the temp up to 85 degrees and adding "AQUARI-SOL'' ick treatment

This did not however cure anything and the bettas health got alot worse,  so i removed about 40% of the tank water and replaced it with fresh water and did the treatment again. Still no luck..  So heres where I am at now

I removed the betta from the tank and have him in a bowl by himself, the water gets alot colder then the tank since its not heated.  I have been changing the bolws water alomost daily to keep it clean,  but the betta has become very "ill"  His gills stick out more then they should, and when I look at him with a flashlight, his eyes look bloodshot.  He doesn't move much, infact he will just sorta float as if he's dead until I kinda tap on the glass, then he will start to swim in a very abrupt manner.  The poor little guy still eats and also gasp at the top of the bowl alot.  When he's not swimming he will start to turn sideways in the bowl as if hes dead,  but all I have to do is tap on the glass and he snaps out of it and starts swimming

Thats where I'm at now with my betta,  I feel really really bad for him,  He's been floating sideways for the past 4 days, but will snap out of it and swim,  I know hes fighting for his life and I feel bad for him.  Is there anything els I can do to help him.  Is there any hope??

Truly yours
Camel

 

[Rose]

First off the reason your betta got sick is due to the fish you put in there with him. The fish you listed are NOT betta compatable. They will go after him like there's no tomorrow and that will stress your betta out and thus get him way sick.

Second descrbe the "spots" to me. Do they look like grains of salt? Are they big, small, blue,green, fuzzy, what?

Changing his water every day is a good thing. Just make sure that his bowl temp stays above 77*. Bettas get sick and sliggish at temps below this. 78* is perfect for you betta. You may have to get a small heater to use in his bowl. When doing water changes make sure you condition the water with a good dechlorinator and the new water is with in 1-2( degrees) of what the bowl water is. If you can get him in a tank that's a minimum of 1g. Larger is better for these guys. As you found out with him in the 20g tank the more space you give him to swim the happier he'll be.

For now I would continue to do daily water changes with a good dechlorinator. Get him a bigger tank. Get a heater for the tank. Keep feeding him 2-3 blood worms once every other day and betta pellets the rest of the time. Get back to me on the spots. We can go from there.

For the tailrot you can use Maracyn II to treat that for a FULL 10 days. For this I would recommend a larger tank (as stated above). It'll be easier to dose that way. Rose

 

[Camel]

The spots do look like little grains of salt and slightly fuzzy and they are still there " all over him"  and I forgot to mention before that I was feeding him bloodworms " well I had to feed the elephant nose bloodworms and the betta just ate them to".  Also, thank you very much for replying to me so soon.

 

[Rose]

First off (I didn't catch this in the last post sorry) Aquari-sol will not treat Ick as it claims to. Second you don't want to put copper into your tank (that's all Aquari-sol is). Copper is toxic to fish. To treat Ick you will want to use Rid Ick + You will want to start out slowly with your very sick betta. I would start with Half dose to begin with and do NOT turn the heat up in the tank. (Heat will speed up the life cycle of the Ick parasite and will make it harder it kill). Do a day or two with half dose and see how he's responding. (By responding I mean has he perked up a little, is he looking and or behaving worse than before the med was added. It may take a few hours before you will see any change if at all. That's why I say a day or two at half strenth.) If he is resopnding well to the meds ( has perked up and a little more active than he is now) you can start slowly getting him closer to the full dose.


For example of this I would do half dose on day one. (let's say he perks up) day two half dose in the morning and a quarter dose about 12-18 hrs later. (He's doing fine and looking better now). Day 3 Half dose in the morning and half dose 12 hrs later. ( still doing good. looking better every time you see him). Day 4 three quarter dose in the morning and a quarter dose 12 hrs later. Day 5 full dose in the morning. You keep doing the full dose for a FULL 3 days after the last spot has fallen off. Don't stop before then. IF you do it can come back with a vengance and be a real pain in the butt to get rid of.

A couple of things I need to bring up with Rid Ick + is that you betta will need to be in as dark of an enviornment as possible (light can render the meds useless. Something that's not on the bottle.) The other thing is it is VERY important that every morning BEFORE you put in a new dose that you do a water change. This med can bring the oxygen content in the water way down and make problems if you don't do the water changes. You only need to do them once a day. One other thing do NOT use any other med with Rid Ick +. You want trouble this will give it to you.

If his condition does change let me know and tell me everything that has happened that might or might not have led to the change in his condition. If he looks like he's not getting better let me know and I'll see what other tricks I have up my sleeve to help you betta boy. Keep me posted on how he does.

In the other post I told you to use the Maracyn II for his fin rot. Don't bother go strait to the Rid Ick. Ick can be more life threatening than fin rot. Let's get rid of the Ick first and go from there. Rose 8)

 

[Camel]

Thank you kindly for your response, I am on my way now to the store to get "rid ick +" I will keep you posted. One other thing, I noticed today that the ick isnt as white as it started out to be, its more like little light fuzzy dull white spots, and it seems like the bettas eyes are sorta sticking out more.. But I will do as you told me and see how things go. Thanks alot for your help on this, I really wanna try and save my betta.

 

[Rose]

Here's one article you may want to check out if you think your fish has bulging eyes.  pop eye is the name of the article, written by a lady named Barb.  I'll keep looking for you on here.  Good luck and I'll be here if you need any help.  Rose 8)

 

[Camel]

Well, the little guys struggle to stay alive is over I was watching a movie when I noticed he wasn't in the bowl. He had jumped out. I did however notice as I picked him up that he was very very slimmy. This leads me to beleive that he had some kind of skin fungus. I don't like getting attached to fish, just ot have them die on me. I don't seem to have good luck with fish. Is salt water tanks any easier to maintain? Fish store said once I get a salt water tank going, that it pretty much takes care of itself. Is this true?

 

[Rose]

Sorry to hear about your fishy Camel. What you described in you last post sounds an awful lot like Slime Coat Disease. At the moment I don't remember what you treat this with. It wouldn't take much to find out.

As for the saltwater tanks they are much harder to take care of than freshwater tanks are. Everything is much, much more costly too. Try another fish and you may have better luck. If you need help just holler. Rose

 

[Davy Reynolds]

Hi Camel, Sad to here about your fish.
About  the slime, Do you the pH of your water??

 

[Camel]

Funny you should mention the pH. Thats been a real puzzle with me sofar. I got a test kit and checked the pH. The kit has a color code and you match the color of the tested water with the bar code. The bar code goes from 8.4 down to 6.8. I have been testing it over and over but can't seem to get it to go down lower then 8.2. I don't want to keep adding pH down cause I have already used one bottle of it, and nothing has changed. I havent changed the water and its a 20 gallon tank with only 2 fish in it, so the pH shouldnt be changing that much from day to day.. Any suggestions?

 

[Davy Reynolds]

This is the cause of the slime
I'd test your tap water to see if it's the same, if so I'd suggest using rain water, just colect it in a ducket 8)

 

[William]

I imagine this will be safe but ya may want to check with other members!! Try adding a few drops of lemon juice I know lemon juice = citric acid and so will lower the ph and I wouldn't have thought that it would affect the fish because, it is a weak acid. Either that or some vingegar - ethanoic acid.

Please check before you do this!

William 8)

 

[Rose]

Camel do yourself a favor and stop adding chemicals to the tank that aren't needed. Fish are very adaptable to most if not all water types. If you acclimate the fish properly they will do just fine in 8.2 water. I know here in the states the fish shop more than likely has the same pH as your water does.

The other thing is that when you add the pH down you have to have water that isn't liquid rock in order for it to work correctly. You have liquid rock which is why pH down doesen't work in your tank. By adding that chemical to the tank like you are you could stess your fish out bad and have a sick tank as well as a high pH.

So do yourself a favor and leave the pH alone and your fish will do just fine. I have liquid rock for water just as you do and I don't add any pH down to my tanks just for that reason. I also have a high pH. I have gotten fish from different counties and put them in my tanks and have ZERO fish from those other counties die on me because of the water chemistry difference. It's really not a need. If you absolutly must get your pH down use RO water combined with your tap water to do so. Much safer and easier to do than the pH down crap. Rose

 

[William]

ooh guess I was wrong then

William

 

[Camel]

Thanks for all your help Rose, William and Davy.  I guess maybe I should just stop worrring about getting the tank perfect with pH and everything els.  Its just that I use to have another 20 gallon tank a long time ago before this one and I had the same problems  " meaning, fish always dying on me after about 2 to 3 weeks".   I dont understand, I do the water changes and feed them right,  they just always end up getting sick and dying.  I have a friend that has a little 10 gallon tank and he almost never changes the water or do any test on it, he just feed the fish and they LIVE.  He has one fresh water shark and a molly, and a albino frog that I gave him.  The frog I gave him was real tiny in my tank back then and never grew, but after 2 months in his tank, it was bigger then a frog you would see in a pond..  Its 7 years later now and he still has the same dang fish including the frog, and the frog is as big as a bullfrog, no joke, the Shark is almost to big for the tank and the molly is the biggest molly I have ever seen..  My point is, there has to be something I'm doing wrong or not doing at all, cause I just can't keep fish happy..   Is there anyway to just have a nice neutrel 20 gallon tank that can host about 5 fish to live a happy long life?        And I'm real sorry if I am starting to bug you guys, but I do look forward to your replys cause I really want to get this tank to act like its suppose to..