Betta Cruelness Before Our Very Eyes.

[Assaye]

We don't have a right to put our desire to hold competitions, improve a species or judge others before the fundamentals of fish welfare - space, light, cover, safety, stimulation, correct water movement, appropriate numbers, etc. We already do the poor things a disservice by keeping them as pets.

If you feel you are doing them that much disservice, then don't keep them as pets. Assaye, I get what you're saying, and I respect that kind of passion about animal welfare, but you have to draw the line somewhere. Otherwise, you'll get no pleasure from the hobby.

Lilu, a stunning fish by the way, would not exist if breeders didn't follow the methods Tolak discussed, or judged bettas in international competitions. Lilu is a product of that breeding and evaluation. How do you know what the standards are if you do not establish them? I personally prefer the wild-types myself. But those are hard to find. Actually, the fighting lines preserve that look better than the pet-only lines.

Just my two cents.

llj

I will readily admit my hypocrisy. I bought Li-Lu because I liked her - she's not intended for breeding and while I have helped fund the industry, I make no claims to have "rescued" her.

However, I won't start breeding, selling or showing bettas until I can give them suitable and natural conditions, and I would urge others to follow suit. If that means I never get involved in that side of the hobby due to logistical constraints, so be it.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

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[lljdma06]

We don't have a right to put our desire to hold competitions, improve a species or judge others before the fundamentals of fish welfare - space, light, cover, safety, stimulation, correct water movement, appropriate numbers, etc. We already do the poor things a disservice by keeping them as pets.

If you feel you are doing them that much disservice, then don't keep them as pets. Assaye, I get what you're saying, and I respect that kind of passion about animal welfare, but you have to draw the line somewhere. Otherwise, you'll get no pleasure from the hobby.

Lilu, a stunning fish by the way, would not exist if breeders didn't follow the methods Tolak discussed, or judged bettas in international competitions. Lilu is a product of that breeding and evaluation. How do you know what the standards are if you do not establish them? I personally prefer the wild-types myself. But those are hard to find. Actually, the fighting lines preserve that look better than the pet-only lines.

Just my two cents.

llj

I will readily admit my hypocrisy. I bought Li-Lu because I liked her - she's not intended for breeding and while I have helped fund the industry, I make no claims to have "rescued" her.

However, I won't start breeding, selling or showing bettas until I can give them suitable and natural conditions, and I would urge others to follow suit. If that means I never get involved in that side of the hobby due to logistical constraints, so be it.

At least you acknowledge it. I am hypocritical as well, but I don't beat myself up for it so much.

You know, your particular viewpoints can be harnessed into something good. There are numerous species of bettas that are threatened in the wild. Dedicated hobbiests are working to preserve them by keeping captive populations in natural habitats. Aquariums, but as natural as natural can be being a glass container. A SE Asian biotope with wild bettas might be something for you to explore as a hobbiest once you get some more experience under your belt. You'll be breeding fish that are not line-bred and possibly preserving species at the same time. A very worthy cause and in that way you yourself would not be perpetuating the demand for line-bred fish and competition judging if you feel that strongly against it.

Something to think about at least and it is certainly more proactive, IMO.

 

[Assaye]

We don't have a right to put our desire to hold competitions, improve a species or judge others before the fundamentals of fish welfare - space, light, cover, safety, stimulation, correct water movement, appropriate numbers, etc. We already do the poor things a disservice by keeping them as pets.

If you feel you are doing them that much disservice, then don't keep them as pets. Assaye, I get what you're saying, and I respect that kind of passion about animal welfare, but you have to draw the line somewhere. Otherwise, you'll get no pleasure from the hobby.

Lilu, a stunning fish by the way, would not exist if breeders didn't follow the methods Tolak discussed, or judged bettas in international competitions. Lilu is a product of that breeding and evaluation. How do you know what the standards are if you do not establish them? I personally prefer the wild-types myself. But those are hard to find. Actually, the fighting lines preserve that look better than the pet-only lines.

Just my two cents.

llj

I will readily admit my hypocrisy. I bought Li-Lu because I liked her - she's not intended for breeding and while I have helped fund the industry, I make no claims to have "rescued" her.

However, I won't start breeding, selling or showing bettas until I can give them suitable and natural conditions, and I would urge others to follow suit. If that means I never get involved in that side of the hobby due to logistical constraints, so be it.

At least you acknowledge it. I am hypocritical as well, but I don't beat myself up for it so much.

You know, your particular viewpoints can be harnessed into something good. There are numerous species of bettas that are threatened in the wild. Dedicated hobbiests are working to preserve them by keeping captive populations in natural habitats. Aquariums, but as natural as natural can be being a glass container. A SE Asian biotope with wild bettas might be something for you to explore as a hobbiest once you get some more experience under your belt. You'll be breeding fish that are not line-bred and possibly preserving species at the same time. A very worthy cause and in that way you yourself would not be perpetuating the demand for line-bred fish and competition judging if you feel that strongly against it.

Something to think about at least and it is certainly more proactive, IMO.

That is indeed something I intend to do when I have more time, a little extra money and more space.

I've got some pretty cool ideas in the works - just need to graduate so I can go and do them!

=)