Betta Changed Colour!

[louis_23]

my betta has started to turn red from dark blue why is this is this good bad or normal? also he swims around like mad in his tank realy gose for it lol is this good or bad?

 

[modaz]

my betta has started to turn red from dark blue why is this is this good bad or normal? also he swims around like mad in his tank realy gose for it lol is this good or bad?

its quite common.

 

[Netty]

I've had one before that lost every bit of red on him. It does happen quite often.

 

[louis_23]

ok thats good lol i was worried it could be a bad thing.

 

[rrrr]

I've had one before that lost every bit of red on him. It does happen quite often.

oh, wow, really? do you know why? that's interesting!

 

[Netty]

It's something to do with the red loss gene. As well as losing red they can also suddenly develop red.

This is the boy I had. He's one we bred and wasn't very old but the change happened over about a month.

This is him with the red

And the same boy just over a month later.

 

[modaz]

will try to explain it in simple terms, recently been researching this due to working with a red loss gene to create orange. Will be right back.

 

[newfishy]

I have a green hm girl, mama was a white hm daddy was a green ft. she shifts from solid green to white marbled green and then back to solid green again.

 

[modaz]

The are 2 types of marbling. the first is reduction of colour and the other is addition to colour.

All bettas hold a general gene that produces either a copy of, or a mixture of colours from either the parents or the generations as far back as 8 generations. The marble gene is a seperate gene completely that controls the reduction and addition of colours, this is not present in all bettas. When it is, this gene has the ability to move throughout the DNA as its not a static gene like the general colour gene.
The gene can stay in one place for any period of time and then without warning will move, sometimes this can be with in a few hours or it can take up to several days to show movement. Sometimes you wont see it move if present in a vast amount.
If the colour of the betta is solid red with no other colours present in the genetical history of the 8 generations then the marble gene will work at reducing the red (this gene is also known as the red loss gene) As it settles in one area it acts as natural block to the gene that is producing the red. The colour gene in bettas is on going and never stops producing colour. With this marble gene blocking it, it stops the gene from producing the colour that will appear on the surface. This is the reduction of colour.
When you see colour added to a fish this is where the marble gene has been static for a period of time and decides to make a move to new pastures. As it moves the colour that should've naturally been there starts to appear again. This is the addition of colour.

This whole process can happen throughout the life of the betta or it may lay as a dormant gene for the next generation produced by the betta. When 2 marbles are put together you will get a gene that moves throughout the body very fast and tends to give solid colours in variation to the bettas colour gene from both parents. When only one parent has the gene it tends to be much slower and gives a more marbled appearance that is commonly seen and sometimes it does not even show as stated above (lays dorment)

The gene itself has the ability to create colour loss versions of the bettas under lying colour. Example is red which can turn into orange, yellow, mustard and white all of which can be marbled or solids or blue where it can create, turquoise, green, yellow and white. All marble genes have the ability to create the butterfly trim and the masking that can be found on some bettas and also celophanes.

 

[Netty]

Very interesting Daz I've also read that by breeding such a Betta with the red loss gene to a nice clean cambodian you could produce some nice pastels.

 

[modaz]

Very interesting Daz I've also read that by breeding such a Betta with the red loss gene to a nice clean cambodian you could produce some nice pastels.

yeah thats true. Using a cambodian that gives a whiter body rather than cream will give you a better colouration in the pastel as the cream can mask some of the colouration that is desired and affect its appearance.

 

[love4aquatic]

modaz-just want to say your NUTS if you think normal human people can understand that lol


i was just going to add this- [URL="http/"http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=281593""]http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=281593[/URL] to say it is nothing to worry about

 

[wilsonnw8]

Modaz I have two Red loss babies from my last spawn a delta super delta and an "Im not sure" lol both boys

First boy has gone red and baby blue to baby blue cellophane and white so the red loss gene as Netty pointed out to me earlier

and the other has gone Green to white and / black / pale green.

Does this mean they could carry on changing then? Im a bit confused as to what colour combination produces what? Id like to keep one of them Im all into my pastels and whites at the moment, does one sound better than the other?

Superdelta change he now has no red in his tail at all:

Second change = he was solid green with red fins now has no red in the fins at all no red on him and more white and jade colour

Sorry to steal a bit of post hopefully others like the pics and OP can see what happened to my fish

 

[modaz]

yes they could keep on changing but the gene could also go dormant and this stop the changing process. The problem is that this is the only visual signs to know that the gene is present. Shame we aint got Clark Kent eyes and look inside to see what was going on

It really does depend on what the natural colour and the generation history holds as to what colours you end up with though. With mixed colours you will get a variety of patterns and colours in one betta but with solid, pure solids you will get just a pattern.

A simple guide would be:
Red~ orange light or dark, yellows, mustards, white, celophane.
Blue~ Green, Turquiose, steel, yellow white, celophane.
Both can give out Butterflies.

Coppers can give off anything regarding colours due to the intense pigmentation of so many colours produced but what is remarkable is when the copper throws out a purple with a metalic finish. Ive only ever had 1 purple like this in and i lost him due to a fight when the betta next to him got through the divider but he was just incredible and ive been searching ever since for one.

Im still learning with the lot of it myself so my knowledge is not 100% on this matter but its fun learning. I always enjoyed genetics at school (which was a long long time ago) and Im so nosey that I cant hold back. I MUST LEARN EVERYTHING!!!!

 

[modaz]

My orange line gives an addition gene. This is where they tend to be marbles and turn solid. Ive had yellow butterflies with black trims, dark oranges and celophanes. One has turned into a beauty and gunna use him for the next generation. But Im sadly having to add blue to the strain in order to maintain a tail type but by rights I should get Mustard gas at some point due to the colour loss being present and the possibility of orange will still be there.