Beginning My Fishless Cycle - Please Advise

[blagger]

Going to start my fishless cycle tonight and just after some advise please.

I've set the tank up over the weekend and it looks pretty settled, have not run the filter as of yet but will get that running in the next couple of hours.

I will be following the fishless cycle method linked in the beginners section: http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/113861-fishless-cycling/

I have done a few base tests without anything added, results for these are

PH: 7.6
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrate: 5ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm

I can get hold of well established media which is quite small compared to the filter I am running, it is from a Interpet PF1 filter, the filter I have is a All Pond Solutions 2000 L/H (big size difference!). The tank size it will come from is 50 litres.

My first question is shall I add this established media and follow the same procedures stated in the fishless cycle? ie same amount of ammonia? Is it worth adding the small amount of media to my large tank?

I've calculated I will need 17ml of ammonia for my 330 litre tank.

Also am I right in saying that the lights should remain off?

I will stick the heaters up to 28 C, get the filter and airstones running a few hours before I start adding ammonia.

Day 1: 12-12-11 - PH: 7.6 // Ammonia: 0ppm // Nitrate: 5ppm // Nitrite: 0ppm (these are from tap)
Day 2: 12-12-11 - Added Ammonia: 5ppm
Day 3: 13-12-11 - PH: 8.4 // Ammonia: 4ppm // Nitrate: 5ppm // Nitrite: 0ppm (nothing added, PH gone up?!)
Day 4: 14-12-11 - Ammonia: 4ppm (no other tests done)
Day 5: 15-12-11 - Ammonia: 4ppm (no other tests done) - Added complete Interpet PF1 established media filter, got top filtration system running as well now
Day 7: 17-12-11 - PH: 8.4 // Ammonia: 2ppm // Nitrate: 5-10ppm // Nitrite: 0.25ppm (nothing added)
Day 8: 18-12-11 - PH: 8.4 // Ammonia: 2ppm // Nitrate: 20ppm // Nitrite: 0.25ppm (nothing added)
Day 9: 19-12-11 - PH: 8.4 // Ammonia: 1 to 2ppm // Nitrate: 20ppm // Nitrite: 0.25ppm (nothing added)
Day 10: 20-12-11 - PH: 8.4 // Ammonia: 1 to 2ppm // Nitrate: 20ppm // Nitrite: 0.25ppm - Added Safe Start and 6 Red Eye Tetras, reduced temp down to 26C
Day 11: 21-12-11 - PH: 8.3 // Ammonia: 1ppm // Nitrate: 40 to 80ppm // Nitrite: 0ppm - Fed fish in evening
Day 12: 22-12-11 - PH: 8.3 // Ammonia: 0.75ppm // Nitrate: 40 to 80ppm // Nitrite: 0ppm - Fed fish in evening
Day 13: 23-12-11 - PH: 8.3 // Ammonia: 0.5ppm // Nitrate: 40 to 80ppm // Nitrite: 0ppm - Fed fish in evening, 25% water change, added more rocks
Day 14: 24-12-11 - PH: 8.3 // Ammonia: 0.25ppm // Nitrate: 40 to 80ppm // Nitrite: 0ppm - Added 16 malawi cichlids, fed fish in evening
Day 15: 25-12-11 - PH: 8.3 // Ammonia: 0ppm // Nitrate: 40 to 80ppm // Nitrite: 0ppm - Fed fish in morning, at lunch and in evening
Day 16: 26-12-11 - PH: 8.3 // Ammonia: 0ppm // Nitrate: 40 to 80ppm // Nitrite: 0ppm - Fed fish in morning, at lunch and in evening

 

[KittyKat]

Yes, it is worth adding even a small amount of cycled media to the tank because the difference can be as much as a few million fold in terms of bacteria numbers. Yes, proceed as normal.

Lights should remain off because light + ammonia -> algae.

If you like, try my (well, not really "my") cycling method, I *think* it reduces the chances of stalls: dose to 1 ppm ammonia, wait for double 0s, dose to 2 ppm ammonia, wait for double 0s, dose to 3 ppm ammonia, wait for double 0s, dose to 4-5 ppm ammonia then proceed as normal, redosing at double 0s, until you're redosing once every 24 hours for 7 consecutive days, then do water change and add fish and plants.

 

[Xraymark]

I would add some bicarbonate of soda to bring ph up to 8 and 8.4.

Be mindful of the actual amount of liters of water once substrate added. I measured the actual water going in which is useful for fish medications in future. My 180 litre tank ended up with only 150 liters actual water. Just for actual dozing of ammonia as you may end up adding too much initially.

Also add a pinch of fish flakes with the ammonia. Some think this helps the process.

 

[blagger]

Yes, it is worth adding even a small amount of cycled media to the tank because the difference can be as much as a few million fold in terms of bacteria numbers. Yes, proceed as normal.

Lights should remain off because light + ammonia -> algae.

If you like, try my (well, not really "my") cycling method, I *think* it reduces the chances of stalls: dose to 1 ppm ammonia, wait for double 0s, dose to 2 ppm ammonia, wait for double 0s, dose to 3 ppm ammonia, wait for double 0s, dose to 4-5 ppm ammonia then proceed as normal, redosing at double 0s, until you're redosing once every 24 hours for 7 consecutive days, then do water change and add fish and plants.

Thanks for confirming it is ok for the small amount of media to go in, I'll nick some of this from by brothers tank later.

I think I'm going to stick to the one I mentioned first, less work for me to do, I think. Also I have read it about 10 times now so its sort of got stuck in my head.

 

[blagger]

I would add some bicarbonate of soda to bring ph up to 8 and 8.4.

Be mindful of the actual amount of liters of water once substrate added. I measured the actual water going in which is useful for fish medications in future. My 180 litre tank ended up with only 150 liters actual water. Just for actual dozing of ammonia as you may end up adding too much initially.

Also add a pinch of fish flakes with the ammonia. Some think this helps the process.

Thanks for the info. Yep I have got my calcs on how many litres I have completly wrong then! I have rock and sand substrate in which will significantly change the volume of water. How do I calculate it with rocks and sand in? Have a picture of my tank below.

Thanks for the baking soda suggestion as well, any ideas how much I need to add?

Don't have any fish food at the moment so will have to give that one a miss.

 

[Xraymark]

Well, I worked it out when I added the water to tank by how many buckets and was quite surprised by difference.  I lost 30 liters for 180 tank.  You are nearly twice as big with quite a few rocks so probably to be conservative.  I would dose your tank for 250 litres and test the water after an hour if need to re-dose.  Nice rock formation by the way.

As to the bicarb.  Your starting at ph 7.6 so if me I would at two tablespoons of bicarb and again re-test after an hour.

You can add fish flakes later.

 

[blagger]

Well, I worked it out when I added the water to tank by how many buckets and was quite surprised by difference.  I lost 30 liters for 180 tank.  You are nearly twice as big with quite a few rocks so probably to be conservative.  I would dose your tank for 250 litres and test the water after an hour if need to re-dose.  Nice rock formation by the way.

As to the bicarb.  Your starting at ph 7.6 so if me I would at two tablespoons of bicarb and again re-test after an hour.

You can add fish flakes later.

Nice one, really appreciate the info, I will go by your figures and then do a test a few hours later to see how things are.

Thanks for the rock comment, I surprised myself with that, bought some random slate rocks and that was my first layout, just chucked it in the tank and there it is. To me it is my very own piece of art, heres another pic, just showing off now!

 

[KittyKat]

Also add a pinch of fish flakes with the ammonia. Some think this helps the process.

How exactly is this supposed to help?

As to the bicarb.  Your starting at ph 7.6 so if me I would at two tablespoons of bicarb and again re-test after an hour.

blagger, if you use bicarbonate of soda, remember that you will have to do lots of small water changes to gently lower the pH (and KH) back to what you started with because a large water change will likely change the parameters too fast and stall the filter.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Well, there isn't a worry about that in a fishless cycle. The bacteria may go on a hunger strike for a day or so afterwards, but as long as he checks his levels before adding fish he should be fine. Afterall, the nitrates will also be way out of whack at the end anyway, so a huge water change will be necessary before adding fish anyway.

 

[blagger]

Also add a pinch of fish flakes with the ammonia. Some think this helps the process.

How exactly is this supposed to help?

As to the bicarb.  Your starting at ph 7.6 so if me I would at two tablespoons of bicarb and again re-test after an hour.

blagger, if you use bicarbonate of soda, remember that you will have to do lots of small water changes to gently lower the pH (and KH) back to what you started with because a large water change will likely change the parameters too fast and stall the filter.

OK, I should have really asked why I needed to raise the pH at this point as it is already at 7.6, the article states it should be between 7 and 8. Do I really need to raise it further for a fishless cycle?

How can I measure KH?

 

[KittyKat]

OK, I should have really asked why I needed to raise the pH at this point as it is already at 7.6, the article states it should be between 7 and 8. Do I really need to raise it further for a fishless cycle?

Personally, I wouldn't, but the cycle may be faster if you do.

How can I measure KH?

With a KH test kit, these usually come together with GH test kits.

 

[blagger]

Thanks for confirming that it will be ok at the current pH. I'm just going to stick with that, hopefully the established media will help to make it faster without adding the baking soda.

I have an API Fresh Water Master Test Kit, didn't include the KH test so will have to miss that out too.

 

[Xraymark]

I'm cycling at moment and I want my cycle to run as quickly as possible so I want all my parameters to be optimum. Your ph of 7.6 will work but is better above 8.  As eagle said you will do a large water change before introducing fish.  Your fish selection should be around your normal ph.   During my cycle the ph crashed to 6.4.  The day before it was 8.  So it's something that should be monitored during your cycle or it might stall. That's when some bicarb comes in handy.


As to the fish flakes, I've read that several times on cycling. No actual evidence just people's experience. As most people have fish flakes then why not use.

Have to say, I've found "eaglesaquarium" to be very knowledgeable on cycling. Good luck and update us on your progress and some images on your finished tank.

 

[blagger]

Right I have now added 13ml of ammonia and the small established media, will test it in an hour or so to see where we are.

I popped out earlier meaning to get some baking soda as I pickerd the media but completly forgot! Will pick some up tomorrow.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Baking soda is not necessary. I would wait 12 hours to test to give the established media a little time to do settle and munch on the ammonia. Be sure to test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate at that time. You are hoping to see more nitrates show up, which would indicate that your established media is pushing things along. blagger, be sure to include a log of your results in this thread so that if you run into a problem folks with experience in this can be of assistance to help get you back on track.



Xraymark,

Thank you for the kind words. I learned at the knee of "waterdrop" and am merely trying to pass the information along. That's what I believe the goal of this forum is, and I want to do my part to help others, as others have helped me. As a science geek, the fishless cycle makes a lot of sense to me. Its interesting and easy to read the trends, which is why a log is so valuable.