Bba V Healthy Fish

I agree ... don't make it too complicated and yes, I fully understand with the hours you work that you don't want to spend that precious free time messing about with the tank when you could be spending time with family and friends - which is far more important.
 
You have to maintain your tank the way your comfortable doing it - we all do. We all have differing opinions on the way we go about things but we all have the same aim - healthy, happy fish.
 
Keep me posted with how this goes and I wish you all the best :)
 
Something that worked for me was adding water lettuce to my tank. Most of my plants were covered with algae, it think it was BBA. Since I added the water lettuce, half of the surface is covered and the algae has really died back. So unfortunately has my cabomba, but everything else seems fine. The cabomba isn't in the shaded area so I can only assume that the water lettuce is more efficient than cabomba at extracting nutrients from the water table. I didn't add it with the purpose of clearing the algae, that was just a lucky bonus.
 
Munroco said:
Something that worked for me was adding water lettuce to my tank. Most of my plants were covered with algae, it think it was BBA. Since I added the water lettuce, half of the surface is covered and the algae has really died back. So unfortunately has my cabomba, but everything else seems fine. The cabomba isn't in the shaded area so I can only assume that the water lettuce is more efficient than cabomba at extracting nutrients from the water table. I didn't add it with the purpose of clearing the algae, that was just a lucky bonus.
 
This is a very instructive/informative post, glad you made it.  You have observed a couple of aspects in the "balance" issue.  
 
Floating plants do use more nutrients, for a couple of reasons.  First is light; being at the surface they usually do not have problems with sufficient light to drive photosynthesis, and aquatic plants will photosynthesize to the max provided everything they require is available and light is sufficient.  And here the floaters have another bonus, what is termed the aerial advantage, and this has to do with carbon (CO2).  Submersed plants are forced to assimilate CO2 from the water, but floating plants can assimilate it from the air; the latter is about four times faster, and obviously there is not much danger of the suply of CO2 in the air being depleted as it can in the water, so floating plants are normally able to photosynthesize full out as long as the light is on, and of course assuming the other 16 nutrients are available in the water.  So they will tend to uptake more nutrients to balance the available CO2.  Another reason why they are ideal in new tanks, since they are taking up even more ammonia/ammonium.
 
The failing of the Cabomba is not surprising, as this is a plant that needs higher nutrients and light.  But this is where one gets into the balance aspect again.  In an aquarium operating on a lower balance level than say high-tech, there will be plants that do well and others that will not manage.  I have tried several plant species over the years, and those that fail I discard and move on to those that manage.
 
Byron.
 
Thanks for all your input guys. I do have much of the surface covered by banana lily leaves and other similar bulb plants, not sure if that works in the same way as Byron describes with the water lettuce, but I'll certainly look into that and give it a go. Another thing I'm going to have to reconsider now is the way I fertilise, which I changed when I used the discus minerals to correct the r/o. I also had high nitrates at that time, so I did away with an NPK complete fert, TMC aquagro I think, and opted to dose only trace elements. However, on reflection this may have been a mistake as I have noticed yellowing of leaves on my swords (iron deficiency I think I read somewhere) and a reduced growth rate on other plants. So, now that I can water change without correction, and do extra if I see nitrates above 20, I think I'll revert back to a complete fertilizer and see how things go.
As for the ph side of the post I'll run water changes just fro my HMA, adjusting the ph the following day after its heated and circulated overnight, and I'll let you know how it all pans out.
Thanks.
 
Yellowing leaves may be iron deficiency, but other issues (whether deficiency of this or that nutrient, or an excess of this or that nutrient which can cause a deficiency in another nutrient) also lead to yellowing leaves.  After all, if a leaf begins dying from any cause, it will often yellow.
 
It's all about that balance.  An aquarium is a closed system, so every little change can have significant impact.
 
Byron.
 
I can see, or rather hear. Byron, that you've far more knowledge than myself, and appreciate the effort you, and of course the other posting members, put into sharing this through posting replies, the forum is an invaluable source of information.
I, sadly, have to record every aspect of my tank maintenance in,a log,as I have extremely poor short term memory /recall due to epilepsy. However, this actually works in my favour as I can look back over my "diary" to see what's been happening. Could you recommend a decent complete fertilizer pls, as I've ordered off the internet previously, powders that are made up with r/o, but to be honest I'm not sure of the quality. I need to dose 350ltrs, changing 150ltrs of that weekly, thanks.
 
I use easylife Profito and I love it ... I use it because it contains no phosphates as my plants get more than enough of that from my rubbish water supply. When choosing a fert I think it helps to know what the plants might be missing (sorry if I'm not making much sense, I've had a bad night and I'm still waking up) I'll try to explain ...
My tank has plenty of Nitrate and the plants don't need more added. It also has loads of phosphate in the water so the plants don't need more phosphate. 
Because my tank has plenty of the above nutrients I chose a fert that contained the 'other stuff' that they might be missing. It's working well for me. Take a look at what your tank has plenty of (it differs from tank to tank because every tank runs it's own way) and choose a fert that works for you.
 
There are plenty on the market and by research you can find out the ingredients. Once you find one that works for you, stick with it. Don't be fooled into trying something new because someone advised you differently. If it works and it's not broken, don't try to fix it :)
 
There's also stuff on the net that show's what various diffiencies look like in aquarium plants. Plants will let you know if they are difficient in something by leaf colour, leaves growing curled etc
 
Could you recommend a decent complete fertilizer pls, as I've ordered off the internet previously, powders that are made up with r/o, but to be honest I'm not sure of the quality. I need to dose 350ltrs, changing 150ltrs of that weekly, thanks.
 
 
Akasha is quite correct about providing nutrients.  Most of us are probably fortunate to have relatively few problems with our water, but if you are aware of significant issues like she mentions, it is wise to work around them.
 
But assuming your water is fairly "normal," it is safer to dose what are termed comprehensive fertilizers.  These will have most everything needed, and more importantly the nutrients themselves will be in relative proportion to what the plants need.  And this is very important for those like myself, and I assume you Damian, that are not doing high-tech methods (with diffused CO2 and higher light) but more natural or low-tech with moderate light and relying on the naturally-occurring CO2.  I'll explain.
 
Aquatic plants require 17 nutrients; some are termed macro and some micro, roughly because of the level needed.  But there has to be a reasonable balance among these.  "Excess" means there is much more of that nutrient than what the plants in the aquarium require.  Deficiency is the opposite, when there is not enough of a particular nutrient.  Generally, plants have no control over how much of a nutrient they assimilate or take up from the water; they tend to store the excess in some cases, but this can sometimes work against them.  Experimental studies have shown that when some nutrients are in excess, plants somehow shut down the assimilation of certain other nutrients.  This varies depending upon the specific nutrients.  As an example, an excess of copper, manganese or zinc will induce an iron deficiency even though iron may be present in suitable quantity.  Botanists have worked out the approximate proportion of nutrients, and there are some fertilizer preparations available where this is reflected in the nutrient ingredients; I'll come back to this momentarily.
 
Nutrients occur naturally in the aquarium if fish are present.  Technically, all required nutrients are likely available in prepared fish foods, though there may be a deficiency of a few of them.  So allowing organics (fish excrement, dead plant matter) to work its way into the substrate (rather than quickly vacuuming it all out) allows the bacteria in the substrate to break it down.  This produces nutrients that the plants can them take up through their roots in the substrate.  However, some nutrients can only be taken up via the leaves, so these nutrients have to get into the water column.  Another source of nutrients, here the "hard" minerals like calcium, magnesium, and a few others, enter the aquarium with water changes.  These "hard" nutrients are usually minimal in prepared fertilizers because most people haver sufficient in their tap water.  This is why I always ask about the GH (general hardness) of the source water; in my own case, I have extremely soft water, and I need to supplement the hard minerals beyond what are available in most fertilizers.
 
The GH of the tap water and the fish load and feedings thus provide plant nutrients and in some cases may be all you need.  Different plants have different levels of need, so slow growing plants need fewer nutrients (and less light to balance), whereas fast growing plants require more of both.
 
The first place to start with adding nutrients via fertilizers is with a comprehensive liquid supplement.  This provides all nutrients to all plants, be they floating, rooted in the substrate, etc., because the water circulates through the substrate and all plants can take up the nutrients via their leaves and roots.  An excess of nutrients, beyond what the plants in the aquarium require, usually leads to algae problems; and similarly a deficiency can do the same because algae is not so fussy as higher plants.  Same with the light if it is not balanced.
 
And at this point I must mention carbon, which most plants take up as CO2 (some can also use bicarbonates which are greater in harder water, though plants tend to prefer CO2 first).  CO2 is produced mainly by the breakdown of organics in the substrate; this CO2 is much greater than what the bacteria, plants and fish will produce via respiration.  As we rely on the natural CO2, and can add all of the others, we have to find the balance.  Overdosing fertilizers beyond the available CO2 will lead to algae; everything always come back to a balance.  CO2 is highest after the night, or period of total darkness, because plants are not taking it up because they don't photosynthesize without sufficient light.  Once the tank lights are on and photosynthesis can begin, this CO2 is taken up by the plants.  At some point it will likely be used up, and photosynthesis slows and may even stop.  Any light and other nutrients then will only feed algae.  This is why we fiddle with duration sometimes, if the intensity and nutrients seem OK, duration is how we gage the CO2 situation.
 
I use Seachem's Flourish Comprehensive Supplement for the Planted Aquarium.  It has all nutrients required (except oxygen, carbon and hydrogen) and in proportion, though the "hard" minerals are limited since as I explained above there is normally sufficient of these in aquaria; similarly, nitrogen as ammonium and nitrate is limited because with fish one usually has all you need of this.  Another product that is identical for our purposes is Brightwell Aquatics' FlorinMulti.  Either of these will likely be all you need.  They are concentrated, so it takes very little to do the job.  I use 1/2 teaspoon of Flourish Comp per 30 gallons of water, once a week; sometimes twice a week in certain tanks.  Again, every aquarium can be a bit different depending upon the biology so experimentation may be necessary.  There may well be other brands that are like these, but I know these two do the job.
 
Heavy feeding plants like large Amazon swords, Aponogeton, lilies may benefit from additional nutrients added to the substrate.  I use Flourish Tabs for these plants which I have in three tanks; the other tanks with less demanding plants manage with just the liquid.
 
Hope this helps, but don't hesitate to ask further.  And thank you for your kind words, which are much appreciated.
thanks.gif

 
Byron.
 
That was an excellent, highly informative and comprehensive reply Byron and I really appreciate the effort you put into it, a very enjoyable read.
As per my signature, I do, in fact, run pressurized co2, on a timer (1 hr before lights on/off) into an inline diffuser with the return split into 2 for greater circulation through the tank. Lighting is twin T5 plant tubes, with juwel reflectors, on for 9hrs a day. Where I think I've gone astray, and seen bba return with a vengeance was when three totally separate, seemingly insignificant things happened in a short time......the imbalance you refer to. I knocked my drop checker off during a water change, didn't have any fresh fluid, so left it off. Co2 ran out without me noticing, after a car smash mid December, and I stopped dosing a complete fertilizer in favour of only trace minerals. All this happened within 2 weeks, so after reading your post I'm now really not surprised I gave bba all the opportunity it needed to take hold.
I've "cut" out as much as possible and introduced as many fast growing stem plants as I could squeeze in. Hopefully this will help me get back on track
 
elmo666 said:
That was an excellent, highly informative and comprehensive reply Byron and I really appreciate the effort you put into it, a very enjoyable read.
As per my signature, I do, in fact, run pressurized co2, on a timer (1 hr before lights on/off) into an inline diffuser with the return split into 2 for greater circulation through the tank. Lighting is twin T5 plant tubes, with juwel reflectors, on for 9hrs a day. Where I think I've gone astray, and seen bba return with a vengeance was when three totally separate, seemingly insignificant things happened in a short time......the imbalance you refer to. I knocked my drop checker off during a water change, didn't have any fresh fluid, so left it off. Co2 ran out without me noticing, after a car smash mid December, and I stopped dosing a complete fertilizer in favour of only trace minerals. All this happened within 2 weeks, so after reading your post I'm now really not surprised I gave bba all the opportunity it needed to take hold.
I've "cut" out as much as possible and introduced as many fast growing stem plants as I could squeeze in. Hopefully this will help me get back on track
 
I am indeed sorry to hear of the accident, and I wish you a good recovery.  It is nice to have this hobby to relax with [I have been dealing with cancer on and off, so I know how this works], but of course it is not very relaxing when problems are prevalent.  But we can fix all that.
 
Yes, you have read the situation well.  Restoring that balance is the solution.  On the fertilizers, those I mentioned are intended as supplements in low-tech or natural method planted tanks.  I suppose one could use them in your situation, more frequently, and with some cost.  The dry fertilizers are what high-tech planted aquarists seem to favour, and I've never gone down that road.
 
Byron.
 
Byron- I have used Tropica's Trace/Micronutrient mix for about 13 years along with various mixes of Seachem's Nitrogen/Potassium/Phosphorus and dry Potassium Nitrate. I am curious about the Tropica comprehensive product sold as Specialized Fertiliser. http://tropica.com/en/plant-care/liquid-fertilisers/specialised-fertiliser/
 
Would this be acceptable in terms of being similar to the two you mentioned above? I am a big Tropica fan.
 
TwoTankAmin said:
Byron- I have used Tropica's Trace/Micronutrient mix for about 13 years along with various mixes of Seachem's Nitrogen/Potassium/Phosphorus and dry Potassium Nitrate. I am curious about the Tropica comprehensive product sold as Specialized Fertiliser. http://tropica.com/en/plant-care/liquid-fertilisers/specialised-fertiliser/
 
Would this be acceptable in terms of being similar to the two you mentioned above? I am a big Tropica fan.
 
I do see a couple of "red flags" in the information you linked.
 
They make a special mention of adding nitrogen and phosphorus.  Phosphorus will be present in any aquarium with fish (introduced in fish foods) and usually at levels well beyond what the plants require.  The info warns of increasing algae and this is no surprise, depending of course upon other factors like plant species/numbers and fish load.  Now, there is phosphorus in Flourish too, but a very, very low level (0.01%).  Phosphorus is only taken up through plant roots, and in the water column phosphate will more readily react with metal oxides, notably iron, creating insoluble forms like iron phosphate which plants cannot use.  In the substrate, this is rarer because phosphate tends to remains in the soluble form, and there is evidence that the CO2 produced by plant roots may break the bond.
 
As for nitrogen, I can't see benefits of adding this, but I will admit we were talking more high-tech methods which might have a low nitrogen level naturally.  The nitrogen in Flourish is present as ammonium and nitrate, as most plants use ammonium primarily and only turn to nitrate when ammonium is insufficient.
 
The other data at that link is sound.  They advise of substantial water changes, reducing use if algae develops, and mention that it is "suitable for aquariums with many and fast growing plants" which fits in with everything I've been saying about the balance.  So my thinking would be that in a high-tech set-up with diffused CO2, this product alone might be all that is needed to provide a reasonable balance.
 
Byron.
 
I'd always recommend the testing of tap water for phosphate (or phosphorus - pretty much the same thing I think) if you use that water for the tank. All the water companies in the U.K add some Phosphate to the water supply. I rang them and asked them why and they said it was 'required' to help other things to work (that was the best explaination I was given)
 
If that is the case then you could well be adding something you don't need to. As Byron says, Phosphate or Phosphorus is added to fish food too and so it's soon very easy to find you've got surplus phosphate and then algae will follow
 
This is just my findings. The Phosphate level in my tap water is 1.8ppm - already on the top scale for my test kit and not good for the fish
 

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