Attempt So Far At Creating A Planted Tank...

[PaulEbs]

With a tight budget, and green aquatic fingers, I've tried to opt for the planted tank, as I think they are beautiful. We started out with mainly plastic plants, and every now and then we'd buy a live plant or two, to find it withering away quite quickly. After joining TFF and extensively building my knowledge thereafter, I think I have gained a better understanding of the planted aquaria. But obviously I still have a lot of learning to do - and a lot of equipment to buy!

The Tank:
Our tank is a 40 Gallon ractangle aquarium, with a variety of fish. The basic water stats are:

Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 30
Ph - 8

I created 2x DIY Co2 [coke bottle] chambers, and made a 'bell' diffuser using the bottom of a plastic cup. Although my Ph hasn't gone down much at all - so I'm querying whether any Co2 is actually being diffused at all?

Lighting:
The light is created using 2x 40watt Sun-glo flurescent bulbs, and 1x half length 14watt bulb. I think that gives me a total of 2.35 WPG. The lights come on in stages across the day, with a total of 14 hours altogether.

Filtration:
The filtration is done using a fluval 4, and 2 other activated carbon filters, which although smaller - create a circular flowing pattern in the tank.

The Fish:
The community of fish includes; 1 Angelfish, 1 Opaline gourami, 3 Harlequinn rasbora's, 5 red phantom tetra, 7 neon tetra, 2 zebra loaches, 1 balloon molly, 2 female guppies, 1 penguin tetra*, 1 common plec**

* This guy used to be in a shoal although they all died of old age [my dad's old fish], so I'm leaving this one [as he thinks he's a harlequinn anway] rather than getting a whole new shoal in.

** This guy came in on a leaf, when he was a baby - now he's huge and we know that he needs to go - we've delt with a common before who got to 30cm. - any takers?

The Plants:
The plants included in this layout are; 2 dwarf anubias, plenty of Giant vallis, lots of java moss, Amazon Swords, Java fern, moss balls, hygro poly something or other, elodea, and a tall thick-stemmed-slow-growing plant.

The vallis always seems to do well, and the elodea always takes off, but the swords don't seem to grow that well - nor do the java fern. The moss balls have always looked lusciously green and healthy - yet everything else seems to just stop growing and produce a tonne of roots.

Any tips on how I could improve the plants growth would be gratefully recieved. I'll include a few pictures to show the layout - any recommendations would be happily recieved onthat too!

The rubbish photo's:

Sorry the images are rather poor - using a webcam as the digi's broken

For the future - my plan is for the whole aquarium to be swarming with plants. I would also upgrade the lighting, and the Co2 [hopefully get a pressurized system].

But mainly, I want to start using fertilizer, as I think this would greatly improve the level of growth and pearling in my plants - and have a question regarding this...

Can I put fertilizer in a pot - plant the plants inside that, and dig it in the gravel? Therefore, I wouldn't have to cover the whole of the bottom of the tank in fert, and could have sections of plants growing from the fertilized pots?

Cheers,

Paul.

 

[Liam]

Looks really good. The swords are primarily root feeders so they would probably do better with some root food. My ph is high too but with root food the swords do grow but the very hard water is not to most plants liking. You could go with pots but they may block the flow of water in the substrate, I tried it once with pond soil, peat, sand and small gravel it became anaerobic and rotted the deeper roots. Its hard to cover them up too if they are any size.

The carbon filters take nutrients out of the water, so I would consider having other media in them. Then you could use a liquid trace element fertilizer.

The tank looks really good I like the rocks and the layout, seems pretty algae free too from the pics. I don’t know much about Co2 but if its going into the cup and dissolving then its going into the water, maybe you could add another bottle and see how that goes. It all looks good and natural to me, I have always grown plants in my aquariums, but don’t know that much about them, basically bought ones I liked the look of and planted them, some grew some didn’t.

 

[PaulEbs]

Cheers for the advice, as I have no testing capabilities for Co2 I didn't want to add too much without knowing the result. Although I read that the Ph should drop when sufficient Co2 is in the water?

What is the simplest way to provide root food for the swords?

We are moving in October, so up until that point I only want to make temporary solutions to keeping the plants healthy - when it is set up in our new place, I hope to turn it into a 100% planted tank, with soil and hi-tech lighting etc.

Have you used liquid fertilizers before? Are they any good? What's the best brand?

Any suggestions for what I should replace the carbon with to help the plants & fish?

Cheers,

Paul.



...found a pic of what the tank used to look like 2 months ago...

Although it looks dense and vegetated, it is mostly plastic plants - apart from the vallis and huge sword in the middle [got eaten by the bala's].

 

[voo]

You can buy root tabs that you just put in the gravel near the plant, that's probably the easiest fertliser.

Are you able to take a picture of the CO2 diffuser? Also, are you sure there's no leaks from the bottles - what did you use to secure the tubing to the bottle?

Do you have a lot of surface water movement? I see there's something in the top right of your tank but can't make out what it is. For CO2 to work you'll need little surface movement in the water, else the CO2 will escape, and turn off any airpump / venturi system where air is put into the tank

 

[Themuleous]

Hey Paul,

First off I should say that you're heading in the right direction with this and the fact that you're done some reading is clearly evident in your posts, which is a great start

Lighting seems good you probably dont need to upgrade, how tall is the tank?

My main comment would be the CO2, glad to see you've got some but I think your diffuser is letting you down and you say get a ladder type one. The bell type ones seem pretty useless in IMHO. An easy tip to measure CO2 is to let the water sit for 24-48hr before you test the pH if its 1 pH point higher than 'fresh' tank water then you know you've got enough CO2, but it sounds to me like yours isn't dissolving into the water very much as pH 8 is very high.

If you're going to move the tank in Oct I would be tempeted to leave it as it is and change the substrate when you move. Perhaps get it set up and do it a week or so after the move? If you want a fully stocked planted tank then a decent substrate is a must IMO ones like eco-complete, the ADA ones (if you have the moeny!) and others are good, so depends on your budget. But I would always be tempted to save money on other things and spend a bit more on the substarte, as I personally think its the key. Its also the hardest thing to change once the tank is running, everything else doesnt require a complete tank strip down!

Lastly, I would agree with Liam and remove the carbon, it is known to remove alsorts of useful nutrients that the plants need. I run all my tanks without carbon with no apparent problems at all

Hope the above helps, keep us posted re your progress

Sam

PS - where you moving to?

 

[PaulEbs]

Thank you for your comments.

The Co2 is diffused using the fluval 4, with the hole in the top of the bell letting bubbles through every 10-20 seconds. The Co2 bubbles then travel exactly infront of the fluval's output, and get dispersed into the water.

The Fluval

The Co2 'Bell'

I've checked the bottles and there is no leakage. Somedays I connect an air valve to the top of the fluval to create more airation - could this be disturbing the Co2 levels?

I tried to DIY a bubble ladder - but failed miserably! What is the price range of these diffusers?

The water level in the tank is 18". I'll try your method of Co2 level checking, will a gallon be enough to leave for 24-48 hours until I test it?

Come October, I will want to strip the tank down [obviously as we are moving - not sure where to yet], and build layers of substrate and fertilizer. I have a 30 Gallon that the fish can live in temporarily while we get the levels and plants sorted after we move. Also, budget won't be so much of a problem then either.

I will remove the carbon today - I'll just shove an extra bit of foam where the carbon usually is, and carry on using that filter.

The missus has taken the car to work today - which is ashame as I was hoping to buy some more vallis for the right side of the tank. I really like this plant - does anyone have any tips on how to care for vallis properly, and maintain a healthy growing pattern? I'd like to not have to buy so many plants - rather split the ones I do have and help them take over the tank. But it isn't obvious to me how vallis creates new shoots.

Cheers for the help,


Paul.

 

[Neal]

Can you show/explain more clearly how you attached the Co2 to the Fluval, i'll try and do it with my tank. Also, can I see your whole Co2 setup, and how everything works?

Neal

 

[Ginge]

One thing i may add is about the common plec not only will it massivly outgrow the tank they are well known to bugger over plants.

HTH

 

[PaulEbs]

Basically, the plastic cup captures the bubbles coming out of the tubing, that runs from the 2 coke bottles to the bottom of the tank. The bubbles then build up and up until some are released through a small hole in the top of the cup. The hole is positioned directly under the Fluval 4's output, meaning that when the bubbles travel up the water after being released, they are dispersed in the flow coming out of the fluval.

Hope that's a little clearer?

Paul.

One thing i may add is about the common plec not only will it massivly outgrow the tank they are well known to bugger over plants.

HTH

It's a bit of a buggar really, we have had a foot long pleco before that Suzie took off us [on this forum]. But this one came from no-where, we certainly didn't buy him.

But at the same time we've watched him grow from only 2cm's, and it will be ashame to say goodbye - but you are right, I can't keep java moss on slates for very long with him around - plus he flicks his clumsy tail all over the place probably causing harm to the plants.

He has to go - and Maidenhead aquatics said they will take him - but I spose I'm holding out deliberatly to see if someone wants to take him off me personaly.

I wanted to replace him with a small group of corydoras, but I don't want to get any more fish until we have moved and the tank is complete. Plus the tank is almost fully stocked anyway.

Cheers,

Paul.

 

[Themuleous]

Not really sure about the CO2 thing you have, a bubble every 10 - 20 seconds is very little. But if you'll have more money after the move perhaps just leave it and get a pressurised system in time for the strip down. If you do leave it I would reduce the lighting you currently have to below 2WPG if you're able, you dont want to be moving a huge ball of algae to the new house!

Yeh I just put extra sponge where the carbon goes.

Vals are supposed to be easy to keep (not had any myself) and produce runners so they can take over a tank if not controlled. Keep the ones you have, once they are in the new tank they'll probably quickly multiply.

Oh and you only need enough water to do a single pH test, so around 5ml depending on the test kit, think a gallon would be over kill! just put a mugful next to the tank for a few days. And just so you know, you can't leave the water to long, i.e. if it ends up stilling for a week that wont affect the pH reading, leaving it give give the CO2 time to leave the water and the pH to rise to non-CO2 levels

There is a recent thread on air bubbles and their affect on CO2 levels have a read of that if you want to know more.

Sam

One thing i may add is about the common plec not only will it massivly outgrow the tank they are well known to bugger over plants.

HTH

Good point

 

[Ginge]

Paul where did it come from then?

 

[PaulEbs]

We're not entirely sure...

One answer could be that it was our old plec's baby, but I very much doubt it. Although my dad used to keep 2 commons, but one died about a year ago, so we took over the tank [30 gallon] in our place. The plec that was left grew absolutely huge [30cm] and started burrowing under rocks and plastic plants. He made a massive hole in the substrate at one point - and it was apparently breeding behaviour?

The more likely option is that he came in on a plant from our local maidenhead aquatics, as they keep tiny common plecs in almost all of their freshwater tanks. I bought a bit of bogwood off them that had anubias growing on it, so maybe he just didn't let go of the wood when we bought it??

Who knows!

But he has now transformed from a tiny 2cm baby pleco - to a huge 15cm one! So yes, it is time to pass him on, just going to be a little sad as we've watched this mystery pleco keep on growing.

I adore his eating habits too! He's a greedy buggar - eating every type of food I provide for the fish, he'll swim upside down once I've put flakes in the tank and hoover them all up.

Although the downside obviously is that every other day I have to net out poo's the size of neon tetra's! Plus there's the whole plant problem - and anything I seem to tie down with cotton [moss, fern, anubias] he takes a disliking too and thinks it should be floating instead!

Paul.

PS - Once again, any takers with a vry large tank who fancy a beautiful common plec just let me know - I'd be happy to drive him to you for a bit of petrol money.

 

[Fillet 'O' Fish]

Nice looking tank m8

With regard to the CO2, I think you may not have enough. I know with my system I was going for 1 bubble every 2 seconds, and it made no difference. Changed this to 1 bubble per second and hey presto...the plants went mad !! pearling like mad !!

Regards
Brian

 

[Neal]

That's alot more clearer now. How would you go about letting out more bubbles per second? Would you have to make the hole bigger? I'm thinking about using an airstone as a diffuser if I make one, then it wouldn't be wasted, would I still need to have a bubble bell above it?

Neal

 

[PaulEbs]

Well the bubbles come out in sevens and eights every 10 to 20 seconds, then the bell traps them, but as it builds up in the bell some of the bubbles are released through the hole - getting dispersed by the filter.
While the Co2 is in the bell, it is slowly dissolving in the water - so it's good to always keep a large bubble inside the bell.