Are you smarter than a Goldfish?

[Oblio]

I'm not sure what to make of this. The fish appears to have advanced at least to Middle School level of robotics control. I find the mix of image processing and fish behavior quite interesting. Hopefully the link to video will work.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1056980171698083

 

[StripySnailGirl04]

The video only very vaguely describes how this robot works. I totally agree on the point that we may underestimate fish (and snails too!) but the fish is not "driving" the robot. A robot is a machine that moves automatically. Therefore, this is not a robot that is being "driven" , it is a machine.
You may wander why I have put the word drive in quotation marks. This is because I believe that, by definition, the fish cannot drive the machine. The fish has not been taught how to drive, it hasn't learnt the skill, it is merely the fish moving and a sensor detection the movement that triggers a signal to a microcomputer that further identifies which motors to send current to. The fish just wants TREATS !!! and swims in that direction to get it.
Don't get me wrong, this is amazing technology but the praise should not go to the fish, many on here will disagree, but I think the real cool thing here is the AI.
Also, surely we must all agree that putting the fish in a small container, especially outside, is extremely stressful and can cause disease?

 

[Oblio]

The video only very vaguely describes how this robot works. I totally agree on the point that we may underestimate fish (and snails too!) but the fish is not "driving" the robot. A robot is a machine that moves automatically. Therefore, this is not a robot that is being "driven" , it is a machine.
You may wander why I have put the word drive in quotation marks. This is because I believe that, by definition, the fish cannot drive the machine. The fish has not been taught how to drive, it hasn't learnt the skill, it is merely the fish moving and a sensor detection the movement that triggers a signal to a microcomputer that further identifies which motors to send current to. The fish just wants TREATS !!! and swims in that direction to get it.
Don't get me wrong, this is amazing technology but the praise should not go to the fish, many on here will disagree, but I think the real cool thing here is the AI.
Also, surely we must all agree that putting the fish in a small container, especially outside, is extremely stressful and can cause disease?

I must disagree on the 'drive' part. First off, there is no AI, the microcontroller simply translates the inputs from the fish into controls for the robot. AI is a misnomer and is a widely misused term. Secondly, the fish is providing inputs via his position and attitude, this is similar to fly-by-wire aircraft controls, helmet mounted controls, and even more applicable, Steven Hawking's wheelchair and his ability to speak.

BTW, our High School robots have a portion of the competition where they are controlled not autonomously, but by inputs from the student 'driver'. They are not in a tank though, since they can't breath water.

I do agree with your concern re: stress, I would like to see a larger robot (or vehicle) tank, along with a water bridge that the fish could traverse to enter and exit.

 

[Rocky998]

There was a toy I owned when I was younger where crickets could drive a car. Are you smarter than a cricket? Yes. A fish can drive a vehicle... Cool... But we are still smarter than a goldfish

 

[GaryE]

I am smarter than a goldfish, but if you threw me in a pond with no way to get out, I bet I'd lose the lifespan competition. Goldfish are better at being goldfish than I'd be.

 

[Oblio]

There was a toy I owned when I was younger where crickets could drive a car. Are you smarter than a cricket? Yes. A fish can drive a vehicle... Cool... But we are still smarter than a goldfish

Get back to me after you try to teach Middle School students - Pay special attention to focus and attention span between the two species.

 

[Rocky998]

Get back to me after you try to teach Middle School students - Pay special attention to focus and attention span between the two species.

Even an infant is smarter than a goldfish. No animal is equally as smart as a human being. All animals act out of instinct no matter what... Sure, dogs show love but not the love we can show with "real" emotion. Animals do have a sort of emotion but nothing as advanced as humans do. This is not calling animals stupid but they cannot go out and create things or do math problems like us.

 

[Oblio]

Even an infant is smarter than a goldfish. No animal is equally as smart as a human being. All animals act out of instinct no matter what... Sure, dogs show love but not the love we can show with "real" emotion. Animals do have a sort of emotion but nothing as advanced as humans do. This is not calling animals stupid but they cannot go out and create things or do math problems like us.

Crows are 'smarter' than an infant. A human infant will eventually exceed the intelligence of any other animal, but when new, they are behind the curve.

 

[Rocky998]

Crows are 'smarter' than an infant. A human infant will eventually exceed the intelligence of any other animal, but when new, they are behind the curve.

Oops I said infant... I meant toddler... Idk why I said infant ... Sometimes I do write something completely different then what I'm thinking

 

[StripySnailGirl04]

I must disagree on the 'drive' part. First off, there is no AI, the microcontroller simply translates the inputs from the fish into controls for the robot. AI is a misnomer and is a widely misused term. Secondly, the fish is providing inputs via his position and attitude, this is similar to fly-by-wire aircraft controls, helmet mounted controls, and even more applicable, Steven Hawking's wheelchair and his ability to speak.

BTW, our High School robots have a portion of the competition where they are controlled not autonomously, but by inputs from the student 'driver'. They are not in a tank though, since they can't breath water.

I do agree with your concern re: stress, I would like to see a larger robot (or vehicle) tank, along with a water bridge that the fish could traverse to enter and exit.

Maybe I have used AI as a wrong term but the fish has not learnt to drive it. It just wants to swim in that direction and the sensors send the input to the microcontroller. Maybe the fish is sort of driving it but I believe the fish hasn't learnt this skill.

Maybe a larger tank could solve the problem? Personally, it would be nice to see this technology applied on things helping people who have disabilities, for example paralysis in the legs. They can move their body much like the fish does to drive, for example, a wheelchair. This may be interesting to see a fish be in a moving container but would it be that useful?

I bet your high school have nice robots!(I still like to think of them as machines if they are not automatic. Even projects that I plan on making will not be called robots if they are not automatic.) Do you know the microcontroller used or any sensors like infrared or fluid? Are you part of your robot team? The aim of the robots?

 

[Deleted member 149562]

Yogi was said to be "smarter than the average bear" but that didn't stop him being a thief when it came to picnic baskets and being shot at...

In all seriousness I don't think you can call one species smarter than another.

However one individual within a species will always be better than another, in the same way you will always find the opposite, you'll always find an individual that is as thick as two short planks.

 

[betta4ever!]

With all the ''smart'' things we do, we are destroying the environment. Who is smarter, goldfish, who only want to live their simple lives, or us, who are destroying the planet, and will eventually kill all living creatures, ourselves included? That's my side of view... And about the vechicle...., to be honest, I don't think the fish wants to be there....

 

[GaryE]

We also act out of instinct @Rocky998 . And we have to stop and decide what intelligence is, and what it means. We can do remarkable things within the confines of how our brains work. But if you look at the current, quickly developing research on animal cognition, there is a lot of intelligence in this world. We aren't that special - we just have abilities no other other species has (while some of them have skills we can only dream of. If we could see like we are learning some other species see - wow).
We're seeing strong evidence of problem solving, memory, emotion and other mental skills in our fellow animals - it's one of the most intriguing new avenues in science right now. As a human, I've learned to keep my jaw from dropping too often when I look at this stuff. I doubt I'll ever get my head around the implications of it, if there are any different than how we act toward other species from our own instincts.
I would have completely denied the possibility of what's being found when I was 16. It completely goes against everything I had been taught back then. Now though, I have an ever growing respect for what is happening in the heads and nervous systems of other creatures.

 

[Oblio]

I bet your high school have nice robots!(I still like to think of them as machines if they are not automatic. Even projects that I plan on making will not be called robots if they are not automatic.) Do you know the microcontroller used or any sensors like infrared or fluid? Are you part of your robot team? The aim of the robots?

I'm a robotics coach at both Middle and High school (FIRST LEGO League and FIRST Tech Challenge). The robot's goal is to perform certain pre-determined tasks autonomously (Middle School) or a mix (High School) for points.

As far as hardware goes, I don't know what the fish robot is using, but there are off the shelf 'inexpensive' image processors (camera and co-processor) that would be easy to use. An ESP32 or SAMD microcontroller to control the robot would be a good choice.

 

[TheTenthDoctor]

@Colin_T