are fish just not lasting as long as they use to???
- Thread starter Magnum Man
- Start date
fishorama
Fishaholic
I have sewellia lineolata hillstream loaches I got as F1s from a sort of local breeder. They take 2 or 3 years to get even close to wild caught size & breed for me. I only offer weekly water changes & food almost every day. By the time I see small 1/4 inch fry they are likely at least several months old. I do nothing to speed up their progress or rescue eggs or tiny fry.
If I were trying to make $$ I could probably do better but that's not a goal for me. Nor is it for Asian fish exporters. Yes, they have almost free water & cheap labor; mine is not, lol. They are grazing fish so I'm not sure how they could be fed more often...that's probably why they are usually sold as wilds from importers. But also why they breed fairly easily if slowly from domesticated stock & sold that way. I rarely see very large (for domsetic bred) fish any more. The younger fish tend "sleep" on the front glass, the big 1s don't but there are a few. I've never seen a dead sewellia of any size but I imagine there have been losses over 13 years.
I'd say many (most?) of my fish live at least 5 to maybe 10 years or more in my care, barring disease or disaster...or having to move...I kind of expect that into the future too.
I think many fish losses can be from lesser maintenance, overcrowding, bad species mix, or far wrong water parameters...or poor fish quality...quarantine!!!
If I were trying to make $$ I could probably do better but that's not a goal for me. Nor is it for Asian fish exporters. Yes, they have almost free water & cheap labor; mine is not, lol. They are grazing fish so I'm not sure how they could be fed more often...that's probably why they are usually sold as wilds from importers. But also why they breed fairly easily if slowly from domesticated stock & sold that way. I rarely see very large (for domsetic bred) fish any more. The younger fish tend "sleep" on the front glass, the big 1s don't but there are a few. I've never seen a dead sewellia of any size but I imagine there have been losses over 13 years.
I'd say many (most?) of my fish live at least 5 to maybe 10 years or more in my care, barring disease or disaster...or having to move...I kind of expect that into the future too.
I think many fish losses can be from lesser maintenance, overcrowding, bad species mix, or far wrong water parameters...or poor fish quality...quarantine!!!
OP
OP
I think a lot of readers were missing the point of this thread... there are a lot of really good fish keepers here... that can keep fish for a long time, and I'm not criticizing them, but expect with that same "expert" care, a lot of those fish would have lasted longer "in the old days" and there is nothing we can do about it, or differently, to make up for lack of genetics, pollution, and accepted practices to bring fry to market faster...
as mentioned above, heat is used to speed up the process ( it is as well, with farming Tilapia... my Tilapia tanks run in the mid 80's, only, so they grow faster ) I personally think many tropical fish are kept too warm... yes, we have to worry more about Ich, on a cooler tank, and fish may breed at higher temps, because of the season, in the wild, and thus, may be more colorful in a warm tank, but I suspect most areas these fish are collected, the water temp may vary by as much as 10 degrees or more annually??? there is your next "smart" heater, one, that over the course of a year, will vary the temperature over the fish's natural range... when some of us, have been so worried to exactly match the temp of the water change water, so the tank never varies more than 1 degree...
AI... says "The Amazon rainforest generally retains a temperature between 68 to 93 degrees Fahrenheit" although the water temperature only varies 2-4 degrees...
I found this an interesting read...
as mentioned above, heat is used to speed up the process ( it is as well, with farming Tilapia... my Tilapia tanks run in the mid 80's, only, so they grow faster ) I personally think many tropical fish are kept too warm... yes, we have to worry more about Ich, on a cooler tank, and fish may breed at higher temps, because of the season, in the wild, and thus, may be more colorful in a warm tank, but I suspect most areas these fish are collected, the water temp may vary by as much as 10 degrees or more annually??? there is your next "smart" heater, one, that over the course of a year, will vary the temperature over the fish's natural range... when some of us, have been so worried to exactly match the temp of the water change water, so the tank never varies more than 1 degree...
AI... says "The Amazon rainforest generally retains a temperature between 68 to 93 degrees Fahrenheit" although the water temperature only varies 2-4 degrees...
I found this an interesting read...
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All these simple, intuitive questions create questions that puzzle us. Look at this one. To me, it is a great question when you think about it.
Fast growth is necessary for the survival of small fish. If they are eaten before they can reproduce, then it's lights out. So @seangee 's point about growth creates more questions. Are we forcing growth, or are we respecting natural growth rates that are hard to achieve in our aquariums?
I see it as wrong not when it's for profit, but when it's badly done for profit. There isn't usually another reason to do things badly. With some fish, speed of growth is helped along by antibiotic use, as in food farming. Hormone use could also be part of it. There, you get fish that arrive with weak gut floras and often die in the transition to more normal condition. They die big and leave a bloated corpse...
But if they grow fast based on clean water and a well suited diet, you get great long lived fish. In my experience, if a fish makes 3 months in your tanks and you're doing things properly, they can live far beyond expectations. The only real difference is how tb has spread.
I don't think that has changed in the least.
We've veered away from @Magnum Man 's original question about long lives. Farmed fish problems generally show quickly, and the fish die in the first few months we have them. Their lives could maybe be made shorter by how they are raised longterm, though we don't know a lot about that. Generally, they outlive their wild counterparts because the only thing approaching predation in our tanks is us when we're not being strategic. Sometimes, our decisions act like predation, and kills off the fish that can't adapt.
I like @Magnum Man 's question, because we're very alike in how we approach the hobby. We're both possibly too curious about all the newly found, really interesting fish on the edges of our hobby. We like seeing them.
He has a job and I'm retired. I had fish longevity problems when my tanks were too small and too crowded. Since I was able to expand to my eccentric fishroom, fish are living longer than they used to. I now figure out how my tanks can be stocked, and cut off the numbers at half my calculation. My one large tank, a 120 with mainly tetras and corys, has as many fish as I used to put in the 35 gallon I had in my living room for years. That solved longevity. My desire to see lots of "new" fish led to a lot of tanks though.
One of my ambitions is to outlive my cardinal tetras, and I don't want to do that by killing them.
I think we often overheat tanks, and that would kill fish. Seasonal variation isn't an issue fro the little I know. When you get to temperate/tropical crossover zones, in Mexico/Florida or Argentina, there would be variation, but not a lot of our fish come from those zones. Around the equator, temperatures seem pretty steady. But water temperatures can be lower than air. Gabon was always 26 for us, but 22 for the fish when we measured every habitat we found. In wider rivers out of forests where the sun gets to the water, like in a lot of Amazon habitats, that water is warm. But I see fish we kept at 23 years ago being suggested at 28 now. I have no clue as to why.
If we have tropical members, they could have more to say on that.
Fast growth is necessary for the survival of small fish. If they are eaten before they can reproduce, then it's lights out. So @seangee 's point about growth creates more questions. Are we forcing growth, or are we respecting natural growth rates that are hard to achieve in our aquariums?
I see it as wrong not when it's for profit, but when it's badly done for profit. There isn't usually another reason to do things badly. With some fish, speed of growth is helped along by antibiotic use, as in food farming. Hormone use could also be part of it. There, you get fish that arrive with weak gut floras and often die in the transition to more normal condition. They die big and leave a bloated corpse...
But if they grow fast based on clean water and a well suited diet, you get great long lived fish. In my experience, if a fish makes 3 months in your tanks and you're doing things properly, they can live far beyond expectations. The only real difference is how tb has spread.
I don't think that has changed in the least.
We've veered away from @Magnum Man 's original question about long lives. Farmed fish problems generally show quickly, and the fish die in the first few months we have them. Their lives could maybe be made shorter by how they are raised longterm, though we don't know a lot about that. Generally, they outlive their wild counterparts because the only thing approaching predation in our tanks is us when we're not being strategic. Sometimes, our decisions act like predation, and kills off the fish that can't adapt.
I like @Magnum Man 's question, because we're very alike in how we approach the hobby. We're both possibly too curious about all the newly found, really interesting fish on the edges of our hobby. We like seeing them.
He has a job and I'm retired. I had fish longevity problems when my tanks were too small and too crowded. Since I was able to expand to my eccentric fishroom, fish are living longer than they used to. I now figure out how my tanks can be stocked, and cut off the numbers at half my calculation. My one large tank, a 120 with mainly tetras and corys, has as many fish as I used to put in the 35 gallon I had in my living room for years. That solved longevity. My desire to see lots of "new" fish led to a lot of tanks though.
One of my ambitions is to outlive my cardinal tetras, and I don't want to do that by killing them.
I think we often overheat tanks, and that would kill fish. Seasonal variation isn't an issue fro the little I know. When you get to temperate/tropical crossover zones, in Mexico/Florida or Argentina, there would be variation, but not a lot of our fish come from those zones. Around the equator, temperatures seem pretty steady. But water temperatures can be lower than air. Gabon was always 26 for us, but 22 for the fish when we measured every habitat we found. In wider rivers out of forests where the sun gets to the water, like in a lot of Amazon habitats, that water is warm. But I see fish we kept at 23 years ago being suggested at 28 now. I have no clue as to why.
If we have tropical members, they could have more to say on that.
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
50 years ago how many fish were being farmed? 25 years ago even the answer is probably different. But, I would bet the percentage of people keeping fish as hobbyists has also increased. This is due the the improvements in aquarium equipment and practices. When were the first H.O.B filters common? When was equipment like Pythons for vacuuming and doing water changes available?
Even the use of silicone to create tanks was a game changer. The easier it became to keep a tank healthy the more people entered the hobby. This in turn made ornamental fish farming a possibility. Add to that the change in regulations for taking wild fish from their natural habitats also changed things.
Just looking at the USA, it is a lot cheaper to fly a box of fish from a farm in Florida than from a river in Brazil. It is a lot cheaper to farm fish than to collect them from the wild. How many of the people who have a single tank, have little education in how to keep fish are content to buy cheaper fish, have them die from their ignorance or just plain laziness are perfectly happy having fish which die too soon in their tanks be replaced for a few dollars. Ignorance is bliss.
And why should the average fish store argue with this as it means they sell more fish. A fish store is still a business and people who own them need to make a profit. And it is more profitable to higher untrained personal to sell and do the rest of the work than people with a lot more knowledge and experience. How many casual hobbyists even know how long their fish should live? How many of them know how to treat a sick fish? How many of them use quarantine tanks? How many of them know the correct diet for their fish or even which brands are the best and usually the more expensive. How many of them join a fish club where most of the members would share the knowledge. It took me a few years from my firt tank to where I was decently grounded in the proper care and handled of our finned freinds
At my club we start every meeting we go around the room and everybody there tells where they are from and what fish they keep. Every now and then we get a new person who has just recently started out. This is not often enough in our club. But we now have a few youngsters who are coming to the meeting with a parent or grandparent. These are the fish keepers of tomorrow who will know what they are doing when they become older and on their own.
Some of the weekend events I have attended over the years will have special program for kids to encourage them to get into the hobby. A few years ago my club did a summer program for youngsters in conjunction with a local 4H club. We provided them with a 10 gal tank and all they needed from filters to fish and plants. All they had to provide was their enthusiasm. Of curse their parents were also involved and in the end though a few of the kids dropped out, most of them stuck with it. And, some of the parents were sucked into the hobby as a result.
Most of the kids are likely to become lifelong fish keepers and they will have the skills needed to do so successfully which means they know how to care for their fish properly.
Even the use of silicone to create tanks was a game changer. The easier it became to keep a tank healthy the more people entered the hobby. This in turn made ornamental fish farming a possibility. Add to that the change in regulations for taking wild fish from their natural habitats also changed things.
Just looking at the USA, it is a lot cheaper to fly a box of fish from a farm in Florida than from a river in Brazil. It is a lot cheaper to farm fish than to collect them from the wild. How many of the people who have a single tank, have little education in how to keep fish are content to buy cheaper fish, have them die from their ignorance or just plain laziness are perfectly happy having fish which die too soon in their tanks be replaced for a few dollars. Ignorance is bliss.
And why should the average fish store argue with this as it means they sell more fish. A fish store is still a business and people who own them need to make a profit. And it is more profitable to higher untrained personal to sell and do the rest of the work than people with a lot more knowledge and experience. How many casual hobbyists even know how long their fish should live? How many of them know how to treat a sick fish? How many of them use quarantine tanks? How many of them know the correct diet for their fish or even which brands are the best and usually the more expensive. How many of them join a fish club where most of the members would share the knowledge. It took me a few years from my firt tank to where I was decently grounded in the proper care and handled of our finned freinds
At my club we start every meeting we go around the room and everybody there tells where they are from and what fish they keep. Every now and then we get a new person who has just recently started out. This is not often enough in our club. But we now have a few youngsters who are coming to the meeting with a parent or grandparent. These are the fish keepers of tomorrow who will know what they are doing when they become older and on their own.
Some of the weekend events I have attended over the years will have special program for kids to encourage them to get into the hobby. A few years ago my club did a summer program for youngsters in conjunction with a local 4H club. We provided them with a 10 gal tank and all they needed from filters to fish and plants. All they had to provide was their enthusiasm. Of curse their parents were also involved and in the end though a few of the kids dropped out, most of them stuck with it. And, some of the parents were sucked into the hobby as a result.
Most of the kids are likely to become lifelong fish keepers and they will have the skills needed to do so successfully which means they know how to care for their fish properly.
Interesting questions indeed. I had never really thought much about temperature. I try to plan tanks for fish with similar needs and then choose the "average" based on the profiles on sites like seriously fish. But what is average and is that actually ideal? We only know what the temperature is in bodies of water where those fish are found. And what has happened in that body of water over the last 100 years? Would a species discovered a century ago have a different temperature profile to one discovered last week in the same body of water? I'm sure the commercial breeders have data on the optimum temps for breeding, but is that the optimum temp for life?
Recently I have been wondering about feeding. I am probably a chronic under feeder. This was highlighted a few months ago when I discovered fry in my community tank. I wanted these to thrive so I started feeding for the fry. This meant 3-4 feeds a day using my normal feeding amount. I never had any water quality issues, I never had uneaten food and no buildup of mulm. And my mature fish gained bulk. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? IMO we live in a world where the biggest threat to human health is obesity. Clearly I was feeding more than my fish needed because they were always healthy before, and live a long time, Now that those fry are well on their way I have gone back to feeding once a day, but I have doubled the amount I feed on average. I have also upped the amount I feed in the other tanks, with similar observations. I have no way of knowing what is optimum, and does anyone? My wife shows cats. Everytime she sees a vet she is told her cats are overweight. But all the (so called) breed experts say her cats are perfect! Who is right! But how much my fish eat is the one thing that is totally in my control, and I have no idea how much I should be feeding!!!
One very good development within all the hype about food brands is that we have more to offer insectivores. I have bug bites and a Polish competitor when I need to use prepared foods. Most of my fish are insect eaters. I don't know why I gravitate to those fish, but I do.
A few years ago I read an a paper on killifish distribution in an African river. It looked at why some stretches of the river had one species, and others a different one. There was little mixing.
The line was temperature. The fish from the forested hills lived in water a slight bit cooler than the fish in the lowland section of the river. If I recall, the difference was one of two degrees only. But the digestive enzymes of the fish differed in their optimal temperatures. If the highland, cooler species moved into lowland waters, it could breed but its guts were less efficient at the temps, and the fry grew too slowly to compete with the warmer water species. It also worked in reverse.
The authors were warning about how such rigid differences could lead to extinction with climate change. I see that, but I also see a very neglected area for aquarists. There's so much we don't know that can technically affect what we try to do. In this case, I may have had an answer to why some killie species did well at my house, and others didn't. And who is to say what was studied in the killies wouldn't also affect other families of fish?
Uh oh.
A few years ago I read an a paper on killifish distribution in an African river. It looked at why some stretches of the river had one species, and others a different one. There was little mixing.
The line was temperature. The fish from the forested hills lived in water a slight bit cooler than the fish in the lowland section of the river. If I recall, the difference was one of two degrees only. But the digestive enzymes of the fish differed in their optimal temperatures. If the highland, cooler species moved into lowland waters, it could breed but its guts were less efficient at the temps, and the fry grew too slowly to compete with the warmer water species. It also worked in reverse.
The authors were warning about how such rigid differences could lead to extinction with climate change. I see that, but I also see a very neglected area for aquarists. There's so much we don't know that can technically affect what we try to do. In this case, I may have had an answer to why some killie species did well at my house, and others didn't. And who is to say what was studied in the killies wouldn't also affect other families of fish?
Uh oh.
OP
OP
and what is current, with global change??? the report on the Amazon, I linked above, seems to be based on studies from the 60's, with deforestation, & climate change... how different might those results be today???
The great problem is we fish-heads tend to be less wealthy than we need to be to answer these questions. We'd have to set up TFF stations in areas where our favourite fish are found, and study the environment over years.
If someone wants to offer the dough, put me down for 3 months in Central Africa. Next year, I can do the Amazon....
Gissashout if you find the funding and need an assistant
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
Theer are people spending a lot of time in the wild re fish. I have met a number of them at fish events. Ingo Seidel, Han-Georg Evers, Julian Dignal aka Jools of Planetcat, Shane Linder, Leandro Sousa to name a few There are many more and they do write and report on things in the wild. We just have to make the effort to find this stuff. Go to a weekend event and you will meet these sort of folks and they love talking fish as much as we all do. I have shaken he hand of Ian fuller and given up my meal tickets for use by the wife of Rosario LaCorte.
On addition I have emailed the lead researchers on publiched papers to ask a question and have received replies. All we have to do is take th initiative. about 15 + years ago Hans Georg Evers was doing the friday night opening presentation at an NRC weekend I this was before I became a vendore room seller at the event). The topic of Hans' presentation was zebra plecos. I have been working with them for only a year or two and had to hear hiim speak, When he finished the presentation I followed him around likel a little puppy dog asking question and he never lost his temper, never blew me off.
I met with Ingo at a few events and that left me with a good story. I had purchased Ingo's book,
The second time I met with him I forgot to bring the book to ask him to sign it. The next time I met him at an event I did the same thing. And then at the second All Aquarium Catfish convention I attended in 12016 I also forgot it. I ran into Ingo in the hotel lobby and I told him once again I had forgotten the book to which he replied how disappointed he was as he had flown all thew way over from Europe just so he could sign my book. We had a good laugh. Unfortunately, that was the last time I was at an event which he also came to, Usually he was at an event because he was one of the speakers.
On addition I have emailed the lead researchers on publiched papers to ask a question and have received replies. All we have to do is take th initiative. about 15 + years ago Hans Georg Evers was doing the friday night opening presentation at an NRC weekend I this was before I became a vendore room seller at the event). The topic of Hans' presentation was zebra plecos. I have been working with them for only a year or two and had to hear hiim speak, When he finished the presentation I followed him around likel a little puppy dog asking question and he never lost his temper, never blew me off.
I met with Ingo at a few events and that left me with a good story. I had purchased Ingo's book,
The second time I met with him I forgot to bring the book to ask him to sign it. The next time I met him at an event I did the same thing. And then at the second All Aquarium Catfish convention I attended in 12016 I also forgot it. I ran into Ingo in the hotel lobby and I told him once again I had forgotten the book to which he replied how disappointed he was as he had flown all thew way over from Europe just so he could sign my book. We had a good laugh. Unfortunately, that was the last time I was at an event which he also came to, Usually he was at an event because he was one of the speakers.
The fish explorer types @two tank mentions are there for short periods, and then come home. We have a lot of data on dry season conditions when the fish can be caught, but when the water's deeper, the locals are there. I've had a few of those people visit my fishroom, and they are wonderful sharers of info. But they do visit, rather than stay and study.
There's more info than we used to have, for sure, but we aren't even clear on how many unknown to science species there are, let alone where they live.
We need to get together and go exploring.
There's more info than we used to have, for sure, but we aren't even clear on how many unknown to science species there are, let alone where they live.
We need to get together and go exploring.
Rusty_Shackleford
Fish Fanatic
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While we can't replicate nature, in some cases we can simulate it much to the benefit of our charges.
As long as I've been keeping any sort of exotic creature in captivity, seasonal changes in temperature, humidity, day/night length etc. has been a part of their regime. Why are fish any different?
We go to great lengths to alter the water chemistry and add botanicals, and micro fauna, and a plant mass 5x what you would ever see in the wild. But do we ever change our thermostat from that comfy 72 degrees? Do we ever drop the heater in our aquarium into the 60's for a few weeks in the winter? Cut down feeding to once a week?
I'm convinced the key to breeding many hard to.breed fish is seasonal changes.
Fishes still live a better longer life in captivity than they do in the wild. I still think they live as long as they did 40 years ago, it's just we're living faster now.
I manipulate temperatures to breed fish if I can get data showing there are environmental changes that trigger breeding seasons. As always, species by species, habitat by habitat. In a lot of equatorial habitats, the temperature is stable year round. If a source says Amazonia goes from temp x to temp y, we have to remember the area is vast. Southern Amazonia can be x, and the main basin y. It doesn't mean that your fish experiences those variations.
North America gets from 110f to -50f, but not in the same places. Last night, I dropped the temperature of a Hoplisoma tank by 6 degrees (over 12 hours) because I was hoping to stimulate breeding. These are tried and true tricks if they apply to the fish we want to keep.
If they don't, then it's not a good idea. You're assuming there's always winter, when for many of these fish, the seasons are hot and dry versus hot and rainy.
North America gets from 110f to -50f, but not in the same places. Last night, I dropped the temperature of a Hoplisoma tank by 6 degrees (over 12 hours) because I was hoping to stimulate breeding. These are tried and true tricks if they apply to the fish we want to keep.
If they don't, then it's not a good idea. You're assuming there's always winter, when for many of these fish, the seasons are hot and dry versus hot and rainy.
TwoTankAmin
Fish Connoisseur
@GaryE
I am not so sure how much I agree with you in terms of those folks spending time studying fish in the wild. I do know for sure that Leandro Sousa has a major facility on the big bend of the Rio XIngu. I know he spend s a lot of time studying the fish there.He has a lot of excellent videos he has shot there as well. Leandro lives in Brazil.
I also know that zebras are mostly collected during the dry season. I have read paper dealing with zebras incuding one which discussed the depths at which they are found.
When I listened to Hans presentation on zebras he talked about going diving with the local fishermen. They use a hose connected to a compressor in the boat while Hans used an aqualung. He explained that the way to get to the bottom was to use one of several large rocks they had put into the boat. He and the fishermen each took one and into the water they went and down they sank.
He said the current down there was very strong and one has to hold onto a boulder or be washed down stream. He said he was quite scared and had to change his pants when they returned to the surface. He also explained how the fishermen caucht the zebras. They would hold onto a boulder with one arm and then turn over rocks and feel around for what was there. They would grab any small plecs they touched and put them into a net attached to their waist. I assume they had dropped weighted line down before they dove so that they could return to the boat on the surface without getting washed away.
Then here is the recent paper which basically identified:
Sousa, L.M.D., Sousa, E.B.D., Ribeiro, R.D.O., Sabaj, M.H., Zuanon, J. and Py-Daniel, L.R., 2025. Two new species of Hypancistrus (Siluriformes: Loricariidae) from the rio Xingu, Amazon, Brazil. Neotropical Ichthyology, 23(1), p.e240080.
My impression is the names I mentioned visit more then just once or twice. They explore various places multiple times over the years.
I did a quick search for scientific paper which have Hans listed as at least one of the reserachers/authors. I did the seach for "Hans-Georg Evers." I got back "About 81 results" and you can see them all here https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,33&q="Hans-Georg+Evers"&btnG=
They use the name HG Evers on the papers. Or in some cases he was included in the results for the sort of reason below:
… eversi was derived from the Greek word Oryza, meaning rice, due to its association with rice
fields, and eversi was taken from the name of its discoverer, Hans Georg Evers (Herder et al. …
I think you may be selling a lot of these folks short in terms of how much time they spend in the wild.
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I am not so sure how much I agree with you in terms of those folks spending time studying fish in the wild. I do know for sure that Leandro Sousa has a major facility on the big bend of the Rio XIngu. I know he spend s a lot of time studying the fish there.He has a lot of excellent videos he has shot there as well. Leandro lives in Brazil.
The above is from Leandro's Youtube page: https://www.youtube.com/@LeandroSousa_IctioXingu
I also know that zebras are mostly collected during the dry season. I have read paper dealing with zebras incuding one which discussed the depths at which they are found.
When I listened to Hans presentation on zebras he talked about going diving with the local fishermen. They use a hose connected to a compressor in the boat while Hans used an aqualung. He explained that the way to get to the bottom was to use one of several large rocks they had put into the boat. He and the fishermen each took one and into the water they went and down they sank.
He said the current down there was very strong and one has to hold onto a boulder or be washed down stream. He said he was quite scared and had to change his pants when they returned to the surface. He also explained how the fishermen caucht the zebras. They would hold onto a boulder with one arm and then turn over rocks and feel around for what was there. They would grab any small plecs they touched and put them into a net attached to their waist. I assume they had dropped weighted line down before they dove so that they could return to the boat on the surface without getting washed away.
Then here is the recent paper which basically identified:
L066, L236, L287, L333, L399 & L400 = Hypancistrus seideli and L174 = Hypancistrus yudja
If curious you can read the paper here https://www.scielo.br/j/ni/a/VVCvG6vydwJXhgQ5z3gYpJb/?lang=enSousa, L.M.D., Sousa, E.B.D., Ribeiro, R.D.O., Sabaj, M.H., Zuanon, J. and Py-Daniel, L.R., 2025. Two new species of Hypancistrus (Siluriformes: Loricariidae) from the rio Xingu, Amazon, Brazil. Neotropical Ichthyology, 23(1), p.e240080.
My impression is the names I mentioned visit more then just once or twice. They explore various places multiple times over the years.
I did a quick search for scientific paper which have Hans listed as at least one of the reserachers/authors. I did the seach for "Hans-Georg Evers." I got back "About 81 results" and you can see them all here https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,33&q="Hans-Georg+Evers"&btnG=
They use the name HG Evers on the papers. Or in some cases he was included in the results for the sort of reason below:
Habitat and food habits of the endemic fish Oryzias eversi in Tana Toraja, South Sulawesi, Indonesia
T LAMBA, A AMBENG, I ANDRIANI - Biodiversitas Journal of Biological …, 2023 - smujo.id… eversi was derived from the Greek word Oryza, meaning rice, due to its association with rice
fields, and eversi was taken from the name of its discoverer, Hans Georg Evers (Herder et al. …
I think you may be selling a lot of these folks short in terms of how much time they spend in the wild.
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