are fish just not lasting as long as they use to???

[Magnum Man]

well, specifically, common aquarium fish???

maybe it's happening to wild caught as well, but I'm suspecting it's mostly farmed fish, but also we at home could be part of the problem, often times, in the home aquarium, fish that are from the same batch of fry, end up getting bred... I'm wondering if fish we've been breeding have a smaller gene pool, and the resulting fish don't live as long, as they would have, with the same care, 20 years ago, add to that environmental pollutants, that even farmed fish are exposed to, and or throw in your micro plastics... it just seems even well cared for fish, are not living as long as they used to... growths appear on 2-3 year old fish, like "old" fish used to get... lots of SFD ( sudden fish death )... have you noticed this as well???

 

[GaryE]

I'd give a resounding yes and no.

For yes, their lives are shorter, I'd suggest:
the spread of Mycobacter infections on fish farms. It takes the form of growths;
the excessive crowding, use of hormones and antibiotics as a response to chains driving fish prices down at the farm level;
the radical increase in freight costs leading to more fish per bag, as water's heavy;
I also think the death of the local pet store is important. There were quality ones. Online stores can fill part of the gap, but the fish will always be subjected to extra shipping to get to you, and shipping is extremely hard on fish. The stress is major. We've added that to a lot of the purchases we used to make locally, a short drive or subway ride from our homes. I was looking at a listing yesterday, but the fish would have to travel 800 km to get to me.

I don't think the gene pool is the issue. The farms tend to be big, with tens of thousands of fish from each species, in the case of common ones. I think their practices are key, which in turn ties into us. There are excellent fishfarms, but we won't buy their fish because quality costs more. Our cheapness dooms us to buy shorter lived fish.

For the no side - fish can still live very long lives. Less expensive wild caught suffer from shipping stress because of freight costs, but not from tb or techniques to rush growth. Home bred fish have been very hardy and long lived, in my experience. There is inbreeding, and I have seen it (once or twice in dozens and dozens of species) go very wrong after 7 or 8 generations here, usually with infertility. But the percentage of homebred fish in the hobby can't be more than 1%. And overall, they are extremely healthy.

We still avoid water changes, as a group. We still overcrowd tanks, and overfeed fish. These are big shorteners of lives. We love youtubers who advocate slack practices, like the no water change crowd. We over medicate, and medicate wrongly. We do all the things fishkeepers have always done, in spite of tons of information suggesting how to do it right while offering good reasons as to why.

One reason we overcrowd is over confidence in our fishkeeping technology. We also rely too much on nitrogen cycle test kits, as if they were all that mattered. They can be incredibly useful as part of a wider approach, but we narrow down too much because the tests are easy. Water changes remain central to long lived fish, a few uncommon exceptions aside.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

And then there is the online world. It has put most of the nrick and mortar places out of business. And that opened up a whole new can of worms. I used to but fish on Aquabid. There we could see the feedback sellers got. We could try to limit the sellers from whom we bought to thoise with the best feedback, That only goes so far. I got ripped off by a very high rated seller for a few $100 which I never was able to recover.

Buyers have no clue if a high rated seller rnay suddenly have personal issues which cause them to go off the rails. A divorce, an illness a finacial emergency not related to fish can cause a good seller to become a bad one. And then there is the desire of buyers to pay as little as possible for things.

My best advice is Caveat emptor. (The phrase “caveat emptor” is Latin for “let the buyer beware.”) Or as the Google AI puts it:
"the principle that the buyer alone is responsible for checking the quality and suitability of goods before a purchase is made."

I have a number of fish over 20 years old. Think clown laoches and a few plecos. I also believe that, if I buy healthy fish, I am completely responsible for their quality of life and longevity

 

[emeraldking]

One of the reasons why commercial aquarium fish live shorter is because they are raised in very short time frame after being born at Asian fish farms. So, in fact we are dealing with fish that are actually younger but biological older. Fish of such fish farms will have a shorter lifespan. And when fish are raised very fast, they will be weaker than fish that are raised at a lower pace.

 

[gwand]

One of the reasons why commercial aquarium fish live shorter is because they are raised in very short time frame after being born at Asian fish farms. So, in fact we are dealing with fish that are actually younger but biological older. Fish of such fish farms will have a shorter lifespan. And when fish are raised very fast, they will be weaker than fish that are raised at a lower pace.

What do you mean by the fish being raised very fast. How do the fish farmers accelerate the aging process?

 

[emeraldking]

What do you mean by the fish being raised very fast. How do the fish farmers accelerate the aging process?

Multiple times feeding live food a day, increasing the water temperature, 1-3 times a water change and a good water flow at the surface (good for the muscle development). I've seen it happen when I was in Thailand. I've visited a number of those fish farms.
And a good friend of mine who provides a number of Dutch wholesalersof fish and crustaceans. And he uses this method as well to ensure the continuity of providing these fish to the wholesaler. He's been doing this for many years now. he also used to do this with livebearers but now he's only focusing on crustaceans and egglayers, like angels, rainbows (small and bigger species), catfish and rainbow shiners.
When a fish is born, it should hit adulthood till almost adulthood in 1,5-2 months. The only thing I don't envy him is the high costs that are involved.

 

[seangee]

In my tanks they last longer than they used to years ago. The biggest change in that was a constant supply of clean fresh water and not trying to keep soft water fish in hard water. Plenty of posts to say its possible and of course it is, but my own experience is that it does affect lifespan quite dramatically. I also don't add anything that's not needed and try to emulate as much as possible their natural environment by not messing with things. I am happy to acknowlege that I have a tendency to overstock and no longer even own a test kit.

I was inspired by something @Byron often used to say

I can't offer advice on illnesses or treatments because I'm afraid I have very little experience in this area.

I have tried to emulate this along my own journey and his advice along the way has certainly paid off.

 

[GaryE]

With my killies, longevity has really increased since I stopped using 5 gallon tanks and moved pairs into end out 10 gallon tanks. For me, it's been a matter of learning to forget conventional wisdom, which dates back to the pre-silicone, only small tanks possible era when people started keeping these fish. I've added about a year to many of my Aphyosemion pairs.

They're not farmed fish though. I really like the point @emeraldking made above, about forcing growth. A lot of the technical aspects of fish rearing aren't about better fish,but are business decisions to increase profitability.

Sometimes it's the availability of species too - some are short lived. They weren't always available before.

 

[MaloK]

In my mind with a sensitive approach.

Outside illness and accidents, You are going to have difficulties convincing me that captive animals have shorter life than in nature...

Any kind, fins to wings, even your daphnia culture is treated better than nature would do.

Things live as long as they can when happy.. The happiness part of the guests is up to you.

It's where you realize, you will never be able to recreate a river strong current in a 55 gallons, that would be enough to keep them in natural "shape:".

This is where it comes down. It's an abrupt change in evolution from wild to captive.

And we have no idea where it's going.

 

[GaryE]

Captive animals in general outlive wilds by a very long time.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I have been working with plecos for about 18 years. I am one who does not believe in power feeding to accelerate growth. I prefer that my baby fish grow at a more normal rate. I believe it results in fish that are more healthy in general.

Power feeding seems to me only to benefit the seller. The faster one can sell fish they breed the sooner they make money and the sooner they have room for more fish. But I laso believe faster than normal growth cause other problems which are potentially harmful to the fish. I think it will shorten the lifespan they might otherwise have.

There is a risk in spawning fish for profit. The longer they are in the tanks of the breeder, the greater the odds that something can go wrong. And even if nothing does so, the cost of maintaining fish for longer means profit is less due the cost of feeding and caring for the fish and all that goes with that.

Of course the above is just my opinion. I am sure there are many who disagree. We all have to decide for ourself how we will treat our fishy friends.

One last observation which is a true story. Their is a lady, Emma T., who had a legendary clown loach named Marge. She was huge and had been raised by Emma from a youngster. Fishkeepers used to visit just to see this fish. It was said that the average visitor upon seeing marge for the first time would typical respond with a "Holy S--T!" And then came the day when Emma had to report the loss of Marge. Emma got sympathy more from fish keepers around the world. I actually shed a few tears after reading the post about Marge's passing.

I have had a couple of clowns that I kept for many years. I do not name my fish because when I do they seem to die not long after. But I find myself getting attached to such long kept fish. I lost the biggest one a few years back. I was gutted as I had it for at least 18 years and it was about 4 inches when I got it. I am sure it was in its early 20s. My current biggest clown came to me at the same time and a similar size, I has been with me now for over 20 years. It started out in a 15 gal. then got moved to a 75 and finally a 150. It is not a pet but more of a friend. I get used to having certain fish around and when their time is up after a long time in one or more of my tanks I am miserable for a while.

We cannot cuddle our fish, we can not take them with us when we leave the house. They can not show affection for us either. But somehow, given enough time, they seem to become a part of our life.

 

[MaloK]

I agree, A fish fully grown in nature in 1 year should not be in three in captivity.

Breeders cannot accelerate nature... They can only maximize it...

As long as hormones are used only to provoke reproduction...

I wouldn't be fond of steroided super fishes....

 

[seangee]

I guess its really not a simple answer - or question.
In the wild (without the impact of humans) fish have an unlimited supply of fresh clean water. Not only does this reduce the risk of infection and disease but it also removes the growth inhibiting hormones that many fish produce. Many fish breed seasonally in the wild, and naturally this is at the time when food is at its most abundant. So is what the breeders are doing really so bad - yes of course its in the pursuit of profit.
I have just been sitting watching my shrimp. If I want them to grow faster or breed more I simply turn up the temp by a few degrees, although it happens naturally at this time of year. But the balance is that they will live shorter lives because I am upping their metabolism rate. Equating good lives with long life is a human trait. My cardinals live for many years in my tanks, in the wild they are almost an annual species. We don't know for sure that one is better than the other.

Perhaps live fast, die young, and leave a good looking corpse is an attitude not limited to movie stars (and musicians).

 

[MaloK]

As far as cherry shrimps are involved, temperature has not been a factor for anything in my observations.

Water chemistry on the other hand...

I'm cancelling all heaters one by one and it changes nothing.

 

[Back in the fold]

What do you mean by the fish being raised very fast. How do the fish farmers accelerate the aging process?

Page 51 of Exotic Aquarium Fishes by Dr. William T. Innes .