CAC
Formerly: Catfish Are Cool
I know lots of people keep archers, and look on this forum, please see my thread on the oddball section/forum if you know anything about them...
thanks, Mikey
thanks, Mikey
Archers
- Thread starter CAC
- Start date
Many archers are labeled as "freshwater" in LFS to lure people into buying them, but all archers should ideally be kept in brackish waters. In captivity they are much better kept in brackish waters. Toxotes microlepis is a slightly brackish water fish, as are knight gobies and bumble bee gobies. It may be possible to keep slightly brackish water fish in freshwater, but they become very disease prone in freshwater. Keeping them in brackish water makes them less disease prone, a longer lifespan, and overall more healthy. You could certainly try keeping T.microlepis in hard and alkaline freshwater, but will probably need to be moved to slightly brackish water.
CAC
Formerly: Catfish Are Cool
No honest, ive researched their scientific names and they are fully freshwater..
id be getting it/them from wildwoods...
have a look on their site
Mikey
id be getting it/them from wildwoods...
have a look on their site
Mikey
Your archer is not fully freshwater. Many fish such as bumble bee gobies are primarily freshwater, but do inhabit brackish waters. In home aquariums these fish, such as your archer, live a much healthier life in brackish water. Trust me, you archer will do much better in brackish water. Search The Brackish Bible, it suggests they should be kept in brackish water.
Dany
Fish Addict
yes all "six" (i think) species of archer are all brakish.
justinp
Fish Fanatic
I would have to agree with them being Brackish 100%...unfortunatley I learned the hard way with archers...I kept them in fresh water years ago but never had any luck keeping them alive for more than 6 months or so until I switched to Brackish water...Now I have had mine for almost 3 years, they have grown to about 6 inches and are extremely happy!
Dave Legacy
Fish Crazy
Who gave you the scientific name? The LFS? Post a picture of them to get a proper ID. I looked quickly on the website and couldn't find them... although I'm pressed for time at the moment. This topic has been done to death. Search for Archerfish, Toxotes, Toxotidae, Jaculatrix, etc. There should be tons and tons of information from when I was trying to properly ID my archers.
nmonks
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There are 7 species of archerfish, of which no fewer than 4 are strictly freshwater; archerfish are freshwater fish adapted to brackish water, and not the other way around!
Toxotes blythii FRESHWATER
Toxotes chatareus FRESHWATER/BRACKISH
Toxotes jaculatrix FRESHWATER/BRACKISH
Toxotes kimberleyensis FRESHWATER
Toxotes lorentzi FRESHWATER
Toxotes microlepis FRESHWATER/BRACKISH
Toxotes oligolepis FRESHWATER
Of the 3 brackish water species, Toxotes microlepis found primarily in freshwater although it is tolerant of brackish water up to about SG 1.010. By contrast, most populations of Toxotes jaculatrix and Toxotes chatareus are primarily brackish water fish, and do not usually do well if maintained in freshwater indefinitely.
Complicating things somewhat is that of these three species, there are truly freshwater populations of all of them known in certain places. By and large, most exporters are carrying the brackish water stock since these are the ones easily obtained. But specialists, like Wildwoods, could quite possibly get the freshwater versions.
Even if they aren't, Toxotes microlepis should do fine in hard, alkaline, freshwater anyway, so provided they are that species, there's no overwhelming need to add salt. Identifying archers is not easy, but generally, T. microlepis has markings in between T. jaculatrix (~5 neat vertical bars) and T. chatareus (~5 vertical bars with small spots in between them). So what you usually see are a few vertical bars only some of which have spots in between them.
Cheers,
Neale
PS: While Frank Schaefer reckons a dorsal spine count works for separating T. jaculatrix from T. microlepis (4 and 5 spines respectively), Fishbase doesn't concur, and nor do some aquarists in this forum (see here). T. chatareus is usally easy to spot because it has an overall greyish tone, but dividing T. jaculatrix from T. microlepis isn't easy.
Toxotes blythii FRESHWATER
Toxotes chatareus FRESHWATER/BRACKISH
Toxotes jaculatrix FRESHWATER/BRACKISH
Toxotes kimberleyensis FRESHWATER
Toxotes lorentzi FRESHWATER
Toxotes microlepis FRESHWATER/BRACKISH
Toxotes oligolepis FRESHWATER
Of the 3 brackish water species, Toxotes microlepis found primarily in freshwater although it is tolerant of brackish water up to about SG 1.010. By contrast, most populations of Toxotes jaculatrix and Toxotes chatareus are primarily brackish water fish, and do not usually do well if maintained in freshwater indefinitely.
Complicating things somewhat is that of these three species, there are truly freshwater populations of all of them known in certain places. By and large, most exporters are carrying the brackish water stock since these are the ones easily obtained. But specialists, like Wildwoods, could quite possibly get the freshwater versions.
Even if they aren't, Toxotes microlepis should do fine in hard, alkaline, freshwater anyway, so provided they are that species, there's no overwhelming need to add salt. Identifying archers is not easy, but generally, T. microlepis has markings in between T. jaculatrix (~5 neat vertical bars) and T. chatareus (~5 vertical bars with small spots in between them). So what you usually see are a few vertical bars only some of which have spots in between them.
Cheers,
Neale
PS: While Frank Schaefer reckons a dorsal spine count works for separating T. jaculatrix from T. microlepis (4 and 5 spines respectively), Fishbase doesn't concur, and nor do some aquarists in this forum (see here). T. chatareus is usally easy to spot because it has an overall greyish tone, but dividing T. jaculatrix from T. microlepis isn't easy.
CAC
Formerly: Catfish Are Cool
Thanks Neale, you legend
see
lol
yeah, go on wildwoods, then go oddballs, then new fish, scroll down, and they are there.
from what i can see, from looking at other Archers, they look like the Toxotes microlepis, but i cant be sure, i used some of the sites, to help try and id fishes...
Mikey
see
lolyeah, go on wildwoods, then go oddballs, then new fish, scroll down, and they are there.
from what i can see, from looking at other Archers, they look like the Toxotes microlepis, but i cant be sure, i used some of the sites, to help try and id fishes...
Mikey
Dave Legacy
Fish Crazy
Here's the pic you're talking about:
I can tell you what they're not, T. Jaculatrix. The body shape makes me feel like their T. chatareus but it's hard for me to say. The thing is I've only seen a few people that have archers with black blotches on the underside of the body and I've never seen them at a LFS. I wonder if those are juvenille markings that will fade with maturity.
Sorry, I'm no help this time.
I can tell you what they're not, T. Jaculatrix. The body shape makes me feel like their T. chatareus but it's hard for me to say. The thing is I've only seen a few people that have archers with black blotches on the underside of the body and I've never seen them at a LFS. I wonder if those are juvenille markings that will fade with maturity.
Sorry, I'm no help this time.
Yes, there are many species of exclusively freshwater Archers. But what I have been saying is that the most common archers in the aquarium trade need brackish water. Wildwoods may have a true freshwater species, but chances are they do not. A clear identification (which is difficult on Archers) will determine the species and whether they will need brackish water or not. The best chance of the species you may get is Toxotes microlepis, which should ideally be kept in slightly brackish water.
I hate to say it, but chances are you will get a species that requires brackish water. There are certainly freshwater Archers as nmonks points out, but to say that you are definitely getting a true freshwater species is very slim.
Dave Legacy
Fish Crazy
It's kind of funny. Identifying archers seems pretty straight forward yet when it comes down to crunch time it's extremely difficult to be certain of what species you're looking at.
On the topic of strictly freshwater species of archers, has anyone ever seen these sold at a LFS? I've only seen pictures of T. blythii and T. lorentzi so I don't think I'd recognize any of the others. Is it because they're protected by the country they come from? I'm really not interested in freshwater tanks but if I could get a strictly freshwater species I'd definetly try them out. Maybe I can go on a collecting trip... haha!
nmonks
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Hello Dave, AMS --
According to Frank Schaefer in the Aqualog book, Toxotes microlepis is the most commonly traded species. He is a collector and takes fish from the wild, and so I believe that his indentification skills are reliable. However, I can't say that I've seen Toxotes microlepis in the UK much, and reading around, get the impression Toxotes microlepis may be common in the US but not Europe. This doesn't surprise me; very reliable sources have told me the same thing about other brackish water fish, such as mudskippers: where you are determines which species you will find in your local stores.
AMS is exactly right to point out that while the majority of archerfish species may be freshwater fish, when it comes to what is traded, then brackish water species predominate. That's sound advice, and I'd recommend as a default condition all archers be kept at SG 1.005 to 1.010 until such time as the aquarist can positively identify the species in question as Toxotes microlepis or one of the freshwater species.
That said, there are some stores that may be able to secure specific species of archerfish and sell them as such. Wildwoods is one of them. They get some really bizarre stuff, and have a good reputation for trading in unusual species. In my opinion, sometimes a bit too unusual (I can't imagine there is a market for the 30 or so barramundi they have in stock at the moment).
Looking at that photograph, I can't tell if its Toxotes microlepis or Toxotes chataereus. Then I found this identification key to archerfish on Fishbase. While I can't count the scales in that picture (Toxotes microlepis 30-50, Toxotes chataereus fewer than 38), the colour markings do indeed seem closer to Toxotes microlepis. I did a quick comparison between the Wildwood "mystery" archerfish and a Fishbase picture of T. microlepis, and, although the angle of the fish doesn't help, the scales do look smaller on their fish than on T. chataereus. (The inset is a zoom-in of the region around the pectoral fin.)
Dave, I've never seen either T. lorenzti or T. blythii for sale. The latter, coming from Burma, may appear soon enough given the increasing variety of Burmese fish appearing in the last year or two. T. oligolepis may be traded accidentally, but it is very similar to T. microlepis and T. jaculatrix, so might simply not be recognised. As for T. kimberleyensis, I know Australian aquarists sometimes keep this fish, but I doubt it is traded internationally.
Cheers,
Neale
According to Frank Schaefer in the Aqualog book, Toxotes microlepis is the most commonly traded species. He is a collector and takes fish from the wild, and so I believe that his indentification skills are reliable. However, I can't say that I've seen Toxotes microlepis in the UK much, and reading around, get the impression Toxotes microlepis may be common in the US but not Europe. This doesn't surprise me; very reliable sources have told me the same thing about other brackish water fish, such as mudskippers: where you are determines which species you will find in your local stores.
AMS is exactly right to point out that while the majority of archerfish species may be freshwater fish, when it comes to what is traded, then brackish water species predominate. That's sound advice, and I'd recommend as a default condition all archers be kept at SG 1.005 to 1.010 until such time as the aquarist can positively identify the species in question as Toxotes microlepis or one of the freshwater species.
That said, there are some stores that may be able to secure specific species of archerfish and sell them as such. Wildwoods is one of them. They get some really bizarre stuff, and have a good reputation for trading in unusual species. In my opinion, sometimes a bit too unusual (I can't imagine there is a market for the 30 or so barramundi they have in stock at the moment).
Looking at that photograph, I can't tell if its Toxotes microlepis or Toxotes chataereus. Then I found this identification key to archerfish on Fishbase. While I can't count the scales in that picture (Toxotes microlepis 30-50, Toxotes chataereus fewer than 38), the colour markings do indeed seem closer to Toxotes microlepis. I did a quick comparison between the Wildwood "mystery" archerfish and a Fishbase picture of T. microlepis, and, although the angle of the fish doesn't help, the scales do look smaller on their fish than on T. chataereus. (The inset is a zoom-in of the region around the pectoral fin.)
Dave, I've never seen either T. lorenzti or T. blythii for sale. The latter, coming from Burma, may appear soon enough given the increasing variety of Burmese fish appearing in the last year or two. T. oligolepis may be traded accidentally, but it is very similar to T. microlepis and T. jaculatrix, so might simply not be recognised. As for T. kimberleyensis, I know Australian aquarists sometimes keep this fish, but I doubt it is traded internationally.
Cheers,
Neale
CAC
Formerly: Catfish Are Cool
Ok if i get one, ill keep it brackish, until i/someone else can identify it.
Mikey
thanks to everyone who helped, really good!
Mikey
thanks to everyone who helped, really good!
Dave Legacy
Fish Crazy
If you're doing a species only tank, what about doing a whole shoal of archers. I started out with 4, am down to 3 since an intake tube accident, and should be with at least 5-6 as soon as I find the right species/size specimens. They're a beautiful fish to see swim in a group and I think their happiest that way as long as there are enough of them. Single would be just fine also... it will enjoy not having to share territory.
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