Api general cure

[cowgirluntamed]

Does anybody know if this is safe to use with nerite snails? I need to kill some planaria and this was a suggested treatment. (Yes Nick, I can use my no planaria but I really want to keep nerite snails in this tank! Lol.)

Anyway, I can pull them if need be and keep them in the ten gallon with 4 other nerites(4 are in this 20 gallon too) and 1 guppy to try this treatment. Heck I even thought about adding a guppy to help with this but I don't know if it would get along with the tetras. Note: the one guppy in the ten gallon has no pests in that tank and it had the same exact plants in it. Which is why I thought of adding a guppy....lol.

 

[Byron]

I would question if this product will deal with planaria, given the data on API's website. But more importantly, it will affect fish, and this is something it is always best to avoid unless it is necessary to deal with a fish-related disease. We often forget how stressful any medication or substance added to the water is on all fish.

This product (which I have never used, and wouldn't simply because these "general" cures are rarely if ever really effective and there are more direct remedies available for specific diseases) contains sodium chloride, metronidazole, praziquantel, and silica amphora. In the Safety Data Sheet, it includes the caution "Harmful to aquatic life with long lasting effects." Odd warning for a supposedly safe "cure." Metronidazole is an antibiotic, and as with humans, antibiotics should be very sparingly used with fish as there is the risk of building up a resistance, and this is a highly effective treatment for internal protozoan when added to food.

The best way to deal with planaria, if they are true planaria, is to clean the substrate thoroughly.

Byron.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

True planaria are carnivores though. They don't necessarily care about left over fish food. Then again...I'm feeding a better quality food so maybe the fish have better quality waste or something...(that sounds weird.)

http://www.fish-as-pets.com/2007/11/planaria-detritus-internet-answers.html

These planaria that I have are very dangerous to the inhabitants in my tank. I know this because of what happened to my betta who died...the nerites in his tank went up and out of the water because they were being munched on...and one of my baby bristlenose plecos died from these things as well.

I know for a fact that cleaning the substrate won't get rid of these things as I've tried that. (The last three water changes I've had to as im trying to get rid of the cyanobacteria without chemicals.)

This isn't necessarily a general cure...it's for treating parasites. I would assume the metro is in there to treat secondary infections caused by the parasites as can happen? I didn't look at the safety data sheet though and I'm surprised to see that it said harmful to aquatic life even though on the package it says safe! Big sigh here......thanks for bringing that to my attention.

Do you think just good old aquarium salt might help get rid of these? I read such controversy on it and I would have no idea on what to start a dose on. But I know it would be safer on the tetras and the nerites as well. But not a clue if it would get rid of these. I MUST get rid of them ASAP before they explode more and start killing things. I'm so absolutely frustrated right now.

I just want to be able to keep snails in here and I know that for a long time after using the No Planaria product that you can't put snails back in. So I was trying to come up with a different option. (And again for reference, the inhabitants are 4 nerite snails, 7 black neon tetras, 3 glowlight tetras.)

 

[Ch4rlie]

Here is a link that may help you, I used this method for treating my snail tank which had tiny little wormlike creatures on the glass and deduced they were indeed planeria. Unsightly little critters. Glad to report it was successful though it did take two treatments to get rid of them.

http://www.planetinverts.com/killing_planaria_and_hydra.html

 

[cowgirluntamed]

I think you linked me to this article when I first noticed these in my 5 gallon betta tank. I did actually do one treatment and everything seemed ok. I did not do a water change and did a second treatment just in case any got missed and my nerite snails got sick and I ended up losing one. Then after a while I noticed that the planaria were still in there....i ended up using No Planaria in that tank.

 

[Ch4rlie]

Ah, interesting. Not sure why it did not work for you despite two treatments, am sorry it did not work out but good luck in your endeavour to get rid your tank of these unsightly little planeria.

 

[Byron]

As both linked articles (posts #3 and #4) mention, true planaria are usually harmless and controlled by regular maintenance, not chemical/medication treatments. Which brings up a point...are what you have true planaria, or one of the similar "false" planaria? That will make a difference re treatments.

If cyanobacteria is a problem, there are definitely very high organics in this tank, and that relates to the planaria (if true planaria). I still advise non-chemical treatments.

This isn't necessarily a general cure...it's for treating parasites. I would assume the metro is in there to treat secondary infections caused by the parasites as can happen? I didn't look at the safety data sheet though and I'm surprised to see that it said harmful to aquatic life even though on the package it says safe! Big sigh here......thanks for bringing that to my attention.​

I realize this is for parasites, but it is still "general" in more than its name and these mixtures are sometimes not the best treatment. Metronidazole is an antibiotic that is extremely effective (on its own) in dealing with internal protozoan and parasites. It has also been shown effective with external parasites like ich, though there are some better direct ich treatments than metronidazole. [As it is an antibiotic, the too frequent use has to be curtailed as I mentioned previously.] I have more experience with this drug than most, as I have twice used it very effectively to rid a tank of internal protozoan, on the advice of a marine biologist and a microbiologist. It is best (much more effective) mixed in with food. But I cannot see any benefit against planaria.

One has to always know the product's side effects before using. When I have had un-diagnosable problems with fish suddenly dying, I have gone to a microbiologist online friend whose husband is a marine biologist (two birds with one stone, so to speak) and her first questions are always for the fish species, and then she recommends treatments that will be relatively safe. This is something most of us, including myself, are not likely to fathom without consideralbe training and experience. Which is why I so frequently advise against some "treatments." One can easily do more damage than benefit. All of these do stress fish, and significantly, not to mention worse side effects depending upon species and drug.

Do you think just good old aquarium salt might help get rid of these? I read such controversy on it and I would have no idea on what to start a dose on. But I know it would be safer on the tetras and the nerites as well. But not a clue if it would get rid of these. I MUST get rid of them ASAP before they explode more and start killing things. I'm so absolutely frustrated right now.​

Salt and heat might work, I won't comment as I've no idea, but salt is one ingredient in that General Cure. One treatment for true planaria is to remove all fish, then raise the temperature to 35C/95F for several hours [this from The Manual of Fish Health].

 

[cowgirluntamed]

One problem with moving the fish is that these things float in the water at times. So even netting the fish will risk just reintroducing these things. These are very tiny thing white things. Some are longer than others and I think the most I saw today must have been babies. All over. They are so small it is hard to see the head and if it's a triangular shape or not. I can try to get a picture for you after I post this but I don't know if it will show up well. If they arent planaria then what could they be? I just know they've killed two of my fish and messed with my snails real bad. These are dangerous little creepies.

If I tried just the salt, without raising the heat...for the species in my tank what would you recommend the max dosage at? I don't want to do too much for these fish if indeed I try the salt.

I will try to see if I can get a picture or two now.

 

[Byron]

One problem with moving the fish is that these things float in the water at times. So even netting the fish will risk just reintroducing these things. These are very tiny thing white things. Some are longer than others and I think the most I saw today must have been babies. All over. They are so small it is hard to see the head and if it's a triangular shape or not. I can try to get a picture for you after I post this but I don't know if it will show up well. If they arent planaria then what could they be? I just know they've killed two of my fish and messed with my snails real bad. These are dangerous little creepies.

If I tried just the salt, without raising the heat...for the species in my tank what would you recommend the max dosage at? I don't want to do too much for these fish if indeed I try the salt.

I will try to see if I can get a picture or two now.

I've (luckily) never dealt with planaria, or anything similar, so I don't want to suggest treatments. My only aim in posting in this and most other disease threads is to alert members to the dangers of the wrong treatments.

I've no idea how much salt might be needed to effectively kill planaria. As for the fish and salt, the guppy will be fine, but tetras are more sensitive; I have used 2 g per litre on ich with characins (tetra, pencilfish, hatchetfish) and corys with no obvious fish problems, but whether or not this level is effective on planaria...?

Obviously salt in any amount will stress them, but it is a question of dealing with the disease, and one has to weigh things. The ich was especially sudden and virulent, and on Neale Monks' advice I did the salt; worked like a charm, and the cories were even bumbling around in the sand same as always, so Neale was right.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

I've (luckily) never dealt with planaria, or anything similar, so I don't want to suggest treatments. My only aim in posting in this and most other disease threads is to alert members to the dangers of the wrong treatments.

I've no idea how much salt might be needed to effectively kill planaria. As for the fish and salt, the guppy will be fine, but tetras are more sensitive; I have used 2 g per litre on ich with characins (tetra, pencilfish, hatchetfish) and corys with no obvious fish problems, but whether or not this level is effective on planaria...?

Obviously salt in any amount will stress them, but it is a question of dealing with the disease, and one has to weigh things. The ich was especially sudden and virulent, and on Neale Monks' advice I did the salt; worked like a charm, and the cories were even bumbling around in the sand same as always, so Neale was right.

I understand you can't say if salt will kill them or not. I wasn't asking that. Just safe levels for the fish. The guppy isn't in this tank, sorry for the confusion. His tank is pest free and I was wondering if adding a guppy or two would be beneficial in getting rid of these...they peck at everything I've noticed. Even got rid of pond snails in that tank for me as well.

Back to the salt...I don't have anything to weigh it in. Can you say it in teaspoons/tablespoons per gallon at all? I've treated a fungal thing and some ich at one time with salt and did one tablespoon per five gallons. The fish did well with this. But that is on the lower side of the salt treatments. I've seen people suggest a teaspoon per gallon. But like I said, I don't want to do too much but I'm willing to try this first to see if it works.

Anyway, here are a couple of videos. One is of these baby planaria or whatever they are, the other is what I believe some type of copepod though these have never harmed anything and have been in the tank for a long time. The planaria isn't a clear picture. I couldn't find the bigger ones I've seen. Maybe tomorrow morning after the lights come on.


Little worm things

Copepods

 

[Byron]

One level teaspoon of aquarium salt is approximately 6 grams, so that means one level teaspoon for 3 litres of tank water. One gallon is 3.8 liters. Remember to calculate the tank volume taking into consideration the displacement from substrate, decor, etc.

Goodness, there's a multitude of whatever these are, both of them.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Thanks Byron! I'll do calculations after I've slept...lol. (though if I have it right... if I did 1 teaspoon per gallon that would be a bit less than the 2 grams per liter? If I'm even saying that right... lol.) and yes...there are tons. More so of the copepod things. But those I'm not worried about as they've never bothered anybody whatsoever. They are just unsightly. When the algae grows on the glass they enter on that as well.

I think one of the reasons the work things are more abundant is i lessened the water flow for the tetras as I thought it was a bit too high by drilling holes in the spray bar. I don't think these things like flow. (Just curious, would you try adding a guppy at all to see if it helped? If he would eat these things?)

 

[Ch4rlie]

Have to say, after seeing both these vid its not like any planeria I've seen or had before.

Both seems to be a sort of Copepods specie of some sort. I had copepods before and these flit and jump a lot, darts about real fast. Those in the vid are not quite that sort of behavior of movement. My CPD's and rasboras munched up these copepods pretty fast have to say, a few days and they were gone (the copepods that is, not the fish )

Usually most specie of fish like to munch on these types of things. But without knowing exactly what they are, kinda hard to tell.

Sorry thats not much help for you.

 

[Byron]

Thanks Byron! I'll do calculations after I've slept...lol. (though if I have it right... if I did 1 teaspoon per gallon that would be a bit less than the 2 grams per liter? If I'm even saying that right... lol.) and yes...there are tons. More so of the copepod things. But those I'm not worried about as they've never bothered anybody whatsoever. They are just unsightly. When the algae grows on the glass they enter on that as well.

I think one of the reasons the work things are more abundant is i lessened the water flow for the tetras as I thought it was a bit too high by drilling holes in the spray bar. I don't think these things like flow. (Just curious, would you try adding a guppy at all to see if it helped? If he would eat these things?)

I wouldn't think water flow had any real impact on these critters. It can disturb fish though. I wouldn't worry here.

May be best to leave the guppy where it is. There is something in this tank and I wish we could be more help to deal with it. I have to head off to the hospital for tests in a moment. Maybe we can do a thorough investigation tomorrow...cyano, algae and these whatever they are suggests an organics problem. And just to say it, I have an organics issue in two tanks, but absolutely no idea what is causing it. Such things can be tricky to pin down.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Have to say, after seeing both these vid its not like any planeria I've seen or had before.

Both seems to be a sort of Copepods specie of some sort. I had copepods before and these flit and jump a lot, darts about real fast. Those in the vid are not quite that sort of behavior of movement. My CPD's and rasboras munched up these copepods pretty fast have to say, a few days and they were gone (the copepods that is, not the fish )

Usually most specie of fish like to munch on these types of things. But without knowing exactly what they are, kinda hard to tell.

Sorry thats not much help for you.

The worm things you can't see well. They do get long and thin and kind of look like the glide some on the glass(almost like a snake might move.) Hopefully I can get a better picture of them.

As for the other things...I've read everywhere that fish tend to eat copepods. The fish don't touch these. They do jump and jerk around. And once when I looked at them through a magnifying glass it almost looked like they had a spot on the back of their roundish bodies. So not a clue what they are.

I wouldn't think water flow had any real impact on these critters. It can disturb fish though. I wouldn't worry here.

May be best to leave the guppy where it is. There is something in this tank and I wish we could be more help to deal with it. I have to head off to the hospital for tests in a moment. Maybe we can do a thorough investigation tomorrow...cyano, algae and these whatever they are suggests an organics problem. And just to say it, I have an organics issue in two tanks, but absolutely no idea what is causing it. Such things can be tricky to pin down.

Thanks again Byron. In my journey with algae post it was suggested to try again with a floating plant and also to add the seachem flourish comprehensive when I get them to help with growth since my current plants are dying. Probably part of my organics issue. I plan on throwing out the current floating plants since its mainly these dying...

As for the guppy, I was curious about buying one, not moving the current one. But I'd rather not for obvious reasons. I'm just desperate.

I do believe the worm things came in on some water lettuce I purchased and didn't quarantine or treat. well, I quarantined for a few days to see if there were any snails, didn't think of other pests at the time though. Now I know better and it's an alum bath for a few hours before any more plants hit my tank! Except from the seller that I've bought good plants from before. I'll either get wisteria from that person if they have any or it will be Brazilian pennywort from a different seller that doesn't cost a lot to get. Hate being on a tight budget!

Thanks again for the help!