Any Water Chemistry Experts?

[Le Sorcier]

Hi all,

In my attempts to start up my 2nd tank I have run into a few problems.

I have started up an Aqua 40 (25 litre tank). It has sand substrate and live plants. It is currently home to 6 Sparkling Gourami and 4 Malaysian Trumpet Snails.

When the fish went in I added some mature ceramic media from my running setup (Juwel 180) and hoped that this would be ok? After checking my water the following morning it produced the following results....

Ammonia - 0
No2 - Between 0.8-1.6
No3 - 110
pH - 8

I'm no expert in water chemistry but I wouldn't have expected such high readings in Nitrite and Nitrate after 24 hours? (The fish were resting on the bottom and not looking too good at this stage).

I then added some mature sponge to the filter as well in case the ceramic hadn't worked?

I performed a 40% water change straight away and then another 40% water change 24 hours later. Then I tested again....

Ammonia - 0
No2 - 0.8
No3 - 110

Not much improvement and still very high readings? (The fish look much better today though, swimming around etc).

Obviously I want to get this right for the fishes sake. Anyone any ideas why these readings have occured?

Many thanks in advance to any help/advice offered.

 

[fluttermoth]

They are rather odd result. Not to sound patronising or anything, but are you sure you're doing the nitrate test right? Right number of drops and times of shaking etc?

I can't imagine what's going on, but keep doing water changes (maybe up them to 60 or 75%) and the tank will balance out eventually.

 

[twodoctors]

The fact the ammonia is zero means that there is some bacteria somewhere. I think you may have rushed it a bit putting fish in the tank even though you have some old biomedia for it. When I set up my 90L I also used some from the big tank and dose it with ammonia. It still took 4-5 days before I have zero everything.

You tanks is not fully cycled, so keep changing water and see what happens. Keep the nitrite to zero or one notch above zero with water change. It will cycle eventually. The nitrate, assuming it is ppm (mg/L) is rather high at 110. It will come down as well with the water change though.

Better still, move the gouramis to the big tank while the small one cycles. This is one of the problem with having a small tank like that. You have to love water change to maintain pristine water parameter unless you have very few fishes or lots of fast growing plants.

Adrian (not an expert)

 

[This Old Spouse]

How does your tap water test out? And for the nitrite testing liquids, make sure you give a sharp rap to each bottle, then shake it as prescribed before using it. I found if I don't do this my numbers are WAY off.

 

[Le Sorcier]

They are rather odd result. Not to sound patronising or anything, but are you sure you're doing the nitrate test right? Right number of drops and times of shaking etc?

I can't imagine what's going on, but keep doing water changes (maybe up them to 60 or 75%) and the tank will balance out eventually.

Yes, I should have mentioned that I also tested my large tank to make sure the testing kit was still working etc and the result there was fine (ie 0).

I just can't understand why the Nitrites and Nitrates would be that high after such a short period of time?

 

[coldcazzie]

Because 1ppm of ammonia doesn't = 1ppm of nitrite its 2.something, and its similar for nitrite -> nitrate. Oldman47 knows the numbers, but I can't remember them exactly. But it means you need more bacteria that process nitrite than ammonia, so if, quite by accident you've managed to pick out filter media that has more ammonia-processing bacteria than nitrite-producing bacteria then some processing will be taking place, but not all, and in the meantime you'll get a spike. I'd not worry about the nitrate reading though. It's so hard to get that test right, plus nitrate is much less important when considering fish health, compared to ammonia and nitrite.

 

[Le Sorcier]

After another 40% water change today....

Ammonia - 0
No2 - Slightly less than 0.8 today.
No3 - Slightly less than 110 today.

Some slight improvement but still not good.

Will do another change first thing in the morning.

 

[Kaybear11]

I found that the nitrate test has to be done almost perfectly to get an accurate result. I assumed it was the same as the ammonia test other than the amount of drops being different and I was getting high nitrate readings. After reading the instruction booklet I realized I was wrong. Tested them the proper way and had maybe 5 rather than the 100 plus before.

 

[StandbySetting]

You'll never get an accurate result with a generic hobby nitrate test kit, the most accurate that I have used and come across is the Salifert nitrate kit, but even still that is still quite inaccurate as things go, and nitrate test kits are affected by nitrite, nitrite often interferes with the nitrate reagents, after all nitrite is actually a form of nitrate, if you have readable levels of nitrite they will give you a higher nitrate reading than is actually present, this is apparent with most test kits anyway, and I know a lot of people on here use the API test kits, and these are affected.

 

[Le Sorcier]

What would you suggest I use?

I tested my conditioned water before using it as a water change and that was fine (Nitrate reading was 10).

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Because 1ppm of ammonia doesn't = 1ppm of nitrite its 2.something, and its similar for nitrite -> nitrate. Oldman47 knows the numbers, but I can't remember them exactly. But it means you need more bacteria that process nitrite than ammonia, so if, quite by accident you've managed to pick out filter media that has more ammonia-processing bacteria than nitrite-producing bacteria then some processing will be taking place, but not all, and in the meantime you'll get a spike. I'd not worry about the nitrate reading though. It's so hard to get that test right, plus nitrate is much less important when considering fish health, compared to ammonia and nitrite.

1ppm NH3 => ~2.87ppm NO2 => ~3.86ppm NO3

It's based on the ppm being equivalent to mg/L.

So, based on the molar masses of each: 1 mol of NH3 ~ 17g, 1 mol NO2 ~ 46, 1mol NO3 ~ 62.

So, 1 ppm (or mg/L) NH3, becomes ~2.70 (46/17) ppm (or mg/L), and that becomes ~ 3.64 (62/17) ppm (or g/mL).

(Thanks for checking my math SbS.)

 

[StandbySetting]

1ppm NH3 => ~2.87ppm NO2 => ~3.86ppm NO3

It's based on the ppm being equivalent to mg/L.

So, based on the molar masses of each: 1 mol of NH3 ~ 16g, 1 mol NO2 ~ 46, 1mol NO3 ~ 62.

So, 1 ppm (or mg/L) NH3, becomes ~2.87 (46/16) ppm (or mg/L), and that becomes ~ 3.86 (62/16) ppm (or g/mL).

The relative molecular mass of Ammonia is 17, so the ratio is 1.00:2.70:3.65 of NH[sub]3[/sub]:NO[sub]2[/sub][sup]-[/sup]:NO[sub]3[/sub][sup]-[/sup].

What would you suggest I use?

I tested my conditioned water before using it as a water change and that was fine (Nitrate reading was 10).

Your reading in your tank isn't accurate due to the presence of nitrite, once this is sorted will you then get an accurate nitrate reading, the 110Mg/L you're getting is likely to be much lower, and 110Mg/L really is nothing to worry about.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

1ppm NH3 => ~2.87ppm NO2 => ~3.86ppm NO3

It's based on the ppm being equivalent to mg/L.

So, based on the molar masses of each: 1 mol of NH3 ~ 16g, 1 mol NO2 ~ 46, 1mol NO3 ~ 62.

So, 1 ppm (or mg/L) NH3, becomes ~2.87 (46/16) ppm (or mg/L), and that becomes ~ 3.86 (62/16) ppm (or g/mL).

The relative molecular mass of Ammonia is 17, so the ratio is 1.00:2.70:3.65 of NH[sub]3[/sub]:NO[sub]2[/sub][sup]-[/sup]:NO[sub]3[/sub][sup]-[/sup].

What would you suggest I use?

I tested my conditioned water before using it as a water change and that was fine (Nitrate reading was 10).

Your reading in your tank isn't accurate due to the presence of nitrite, once this is sorted will you then get an accurate nitrate reading, the 110Mg/L you're getting is likely to be much lower, and 110Mg/L really is nothing to worry about.

Plus 3 for NH3... Oops... I thought my numbers seemed different than what I remembered...

 

[Le Sorcier]

Your calculations are beyond me but it does make sense what you are saying.

I know its more important to get the Nitrite down and this will give me a more reliable Nitrate reading?

I guess its just water changes daily for now?

 

[StandbySetting]

Yes, keep up with your water changes.