Another Wipe Out... :-(

The December FOTM Contest Poll is open!
FishForums.net Fish of the Month
🏆 Click to vote! 🏆

rms

Fish Crazy
Joined
Aug 13, 2013
Messages
260
Reaction score
0
Location
GB
So I get home from work this evening to find my water very cloudy and 90% fish wiped out. To say I'm gutted is an understatement!
 
I have a 125l Fluval Roma with U3 filter and two Chinese filters. CO2, EI dosing with salts and trace elements. My weekly 50% water change was due yesterday, which I did using Prime at .3mm per 12l bucket. Before the change my nitrates were somewhere between 50 and 100. After the change they were 25. Before the water change my tank was cycled, 0 on ammonia and nitrite. I use Salifert to test these particular parameters. As well as the water change I clean my filters on Mondays, using old tank water and this week I did a massive clean up. I took all my rocks out and scrubbed them with the tooth brush I use for this. Took all my plants out and gave them a clean, removing dead and dying leaves. I've been having problems with plant growth and this was part of the remedy required to improve on this. Nothing came into contact with anything it shouldn't have. This I am certain of.
 
I did increase my CO2 last week, but for some days there has been no change in the behaviour of the fish. My drop checker is between green and yellow, so slightly up, but this has been like this for days. I did change some of the foam media in my filter that I use to diffuse the CO2. I added some very fine foam to it to diffuse the CO2 more efficiently. This was not checked as I did not turn down the CO2 nor have the chance to monitor the reaction of the fish this morning when the timer switched on the CO2 supply. Up until this morning they were acting as normal. My neons were glowing, swimming in the water flow or exploring. My clown loaches, despite only having two, were their usual playful selves and my guppies darting up and down, swimming low, medium and high in the tank and chasing each other. A very happy tank....
 
I am scrupiously careful to the point of obsessive when it comes to what goes in my tank; the buckets I use, how I dose anything and everything, how I clean various parts etc... Everything has it's place when not being used and nothing contaminates anything, nor does anything get contaminated by anything else in the house. My partner thinks I'm slightly disturbed when it comes to these matters and my children are ever so slightly afraid of me on Mondays... 
 
Here's the crucial bit, which I think is to blame (unless it's the CO2). I had to replace the media in my U3 because when I bought the tank (second hand) the filter only came with the cartridges; no media supplied. When I did this weeks maintenance I noticed the Bio Max media was very smooth, not like the Bio Max I bought with my U2 for a previous tank, which is very gritty and rough. I still have my U2 and all parts so I took out the Bio Max to compare and sure enough the new Bio Max media I bought from Ebay was very different to the original. I decided to swap them over. They had been soaking in still water for around one month because I am selling my U2 along with a tank and other items. I thought by keeping the media wet I would be preserving healthy bacteria for the person buying my old kit. Nothing got into the media and I believed that keeping the media wet would preserve the bacteria within it.
 
It's the only thing I did differently and I am only glad that someone else didn't buy my stuff and then subsequently kill their fish. It's the only explanation I have...
 
The dead fish: The two clown loaches and guppies show no signs of any harm. Three of the five neons have bloated stomachs to the point they have ruptured, one especially so. The other two neons seem normal, except one of them is badly discoloured. From what I can see there are no other signs of distress in them, nor the other fish. See pictures (I flushed one of the clowns already but it was identical in physical appearance)
 
I have tested the main water parameters and now read ammonia 0, nitrite 1, nitrate 100. Nitrate at 100 after reading around 75 before a 50% water change and then reading 25 yesterday, just after the water change... Also nitrite at 1? I am puzzled at this.
 
My limited experience tells me a cloudy tank is due to a bacterial bloom; something that happens during a tank cycle? My tank was well cycled though. The Salifert nitrite test always came up slightly pink from the side view of the test tube every week, but analysis showed this to be around 0.025. The last test I did had clear water meaning there was absolutely 0 nitrite. Ammonia has always tested 0 since the cycle finished. 
 
I'm not sure what to do really. Should I take the survivors out and completely clean the tank, or just 90% water change and see what happens? Have I had some sort of mad spike happen in one day? Was it the CO2's more efficient diffusion. A bit lost really. Lost and a bit devistated.....
 
 
 
 
 

Just to add. The remaining fish: 1 guppie and 3 neons appear to be completely fine. The neons are a little jumpy, but can't blame them for that. The guppie is acting like nothing happened...
 

Attachments

  • 002.JPG
    002.JPG
    42.1 KB · Views: 114
  • 003.JPG
    003.JPG
    28.2 KB · Views: 97
  • 004.JPG
    004.JPG
    45.8 KB · Views: 81
So sad to see those dead fishes :(
 
I think that the media you used was without the bacteria.
Without Ammonia to feed from, they most likely died, leaving you with an empty media.
 
This is my guess.
I am very sorry for your loss.
 
Oh man! 
sad1.gif

 
Wow, that sure was a wipeout! 
 
Have to say think changing over the ceramic media seems to be the bad move i think.
 
Even though you were keeping the media in still water, bacteria still needs ammonia to keep going otherwise they simply go dormant and some will probably die off. Even if bacteria is just dormant, will take them a while to fully get back up to strength to be able to deal with ammonia and nitrites.
 
You should never have to replace ceramic media, if you do need to replace ceramic media, just a little at a time to keep the balance. A quarter of old taken out, replace with same amount of new every 3 or 4 weeks would be best IMO.
 
So, i feel it was ammonia/nitrite spikes that probably killed your stocking.
 
Looking at the pics of your guppies, looks like they have bent spines, a sign of shock possibly.
 
Sorry for your losses.
 
So sorry for your loss, it sure looks like it was the media, just keeping it wet will not keep bacteria alive, it needs the ammonia (as the others have said) and it also needs flowing oxygenated water. The blackness on the neons particularly indicated nitrate poisoning along with the bloating is the internal organs that have expanded. On the plus side the remaining fish should be savable with daily water changes (warn the family :) ) You have some mature media so it wont take long for the new media to "catch up" and sadly with the loss of fish there will be less ammonia. Treat the tank as a fish in cycle until all readings are back to normal.
 
Hi rms,
 
Im so sorry for your losses! Can I ask how many fish in total were in your tank? I don't think you mentioned the number of guppies, I may have missed it though. You also said that you were running two other filters alongside the U3? Did you change the media in those as well? Lastly when you say you clean the filters on monday do you mean you changed the media yesterday or the monday before that?
 
I have three filters running. I changed the Bio Max in my U3, NOT the sponge media. I added a small amount of fine sponge to the already loaded filter that diffuses my CO2. The third filter, that deals with my surface disruption was not changed in any way. Could changing the bio media in one filter really have disrupted my cycle? I was more inclined to think that something toxic formed in the Bio Max I left soaking in still water.....
 
I ask this genuinely, not out of disbelief in your opinions.
 
If that's the case then the cycle must depend on the balance of a specific set up; meaning that it doesn't matter how many filters you have, the cycle will always balance out on what is available and spread itself: One filter = high concentration of bacteria. Two or three = a broader spread of bacteria equally reliant on the media available.
 
Does that make sense?
 
 
l_l_l said:
So sad to see those dead fishes
sad.png

 
I think that the media you used was without the bacteria.
Without Ammonia to feed from, they most likely died, leaving you with an empty media.
 
This is my guess.
I am very sorry for your loss.
 
l_l_l said:
So sad to see those dead fishes
sad.png
 
The clowns were a particular loss. They are amazing fish.....
 
Ch4rlie said:
You should never have to replace ceramic media, if you do need to replace ceramic media, just a little at a time to keep the balance. A quarter of old taken out, replace with same amount of new every 3 or 4 weeks would be best IMO.
 
I replaced it because it seemed I was sold inferior media off ebay. You are absolutely right though. Bit by bit....... 
 
I have read that bacteria will survive up to 8/9 weeks without water flow and ammonia. It was posted here by someone when I had a filter blow out crisis. So much depends on experience rather than what you read - I am learning this....
 
Thanmk you both :)
 
I thought the same rms, maybe a bacteria could have contaminated the BioMax, however Im not sure. Maybe someone else can answer it with more confidence. Did you change the media yesterday?
 
NeonTetra97 said:
Hi rms,
 
Im so sorry for your losses! Can I ask how many fish in total were in your tank? I don't think you mentioned the number of guppies, I may have missed it though. You also said that you were running two other filters alongside the U3? Did you change the media in those as well? Lastly when you say you clean the filters on monday do you mean you changed the media yesterday or the monday before that?
 
I had 2 clowns, 4 guppies and 8 neons. 1 guppie and 3 neons remain. 
 
I only changed the BioMax in the U3, the sponge was left as it was and had been running with a small piece of cycled sponge for 3 weeks, so highly likely that my U3 was fully mature. In my second filter, equally as powerful in terms of output, I only added a small layer of fine sponge to an existing, fully mature filter. The new sponge was brand new, washed in old tank water. Everything I have explained I did yesterday.
 
 
star4 said:
On the plus side the remaining fish should be savable with daily water changes (warn the family
smile.png
 
Thanks for making me smile and for the advice... :)
NeonTetra97 said:
I thought the same rms, maybe a bacteria could have contaminated the BioMax, however Im not sure. Maybe someone else can answer it with more confidence. Did you change the media yesterday?
 
Sorry..... I am slightly behind you in terms of responses. See above :)
 
Hmm, I know that in filters there is only enough bacteria for the bio-load of your tank. Only a certain amount of waste produced to feed a certain amount of bacteria. The BioMax probably held the majority of the bacteria but the sponges and the other filters must have had some bacteria on them. I just can't see how in 24 hours such large amounts of ammonia could build up with two filters still running with mature media. And it wasn't like your tank was crammed with fish. How much and how often did you feed your fish?
 
I fed once a day when I'm working at around a 2 minute feed, and then 6 times a day when at home for the whole day. When at home all day I fed enough for about 20 seconds of feeding, so a very small amount. Tiny..... Every Sunday I fed live brine shrimp, which got demolished by the neons and clowns especially.
 
It is making sense to me now that the cycle depends on the ammonia/nitrite available, so the bacteria will spread amongst the media available, regardless how much there is. There was a lot of media there though and I only removed a small amount. Isn't this the same as replacing a third or quarter of your media, as recommended when changing something? I only changed about 1/6 or 1/5 at a push.
 
I don't understand the clowdy water though. To me that indicates a bacteria bloom and so, a cycle....
 
I agree with the clown loach, if they were smaller I'd have a few of them myself, they amaze me.
 
Cloudy water might indicate bacteria bloom..
It's such a shame you had to go through this!
 
:|
 
Yes bacteria can survive for quite a while without ammonia or else but they will go "dormant" if they are not fed. They need to be fed to get back to work..
 
im sorry for your loss. I wish I knew what to tell you. With the tank going cloudy though...was there a pH spike? I have seen rapid pH spike wipe out fish and leave the water cloudy.
 
I'm very sorry for your loss!
 
The only thing I can think of is the same as the others, the changing of the media.
 
Was there anything on top of the container that held the ceramic rings? If not, is it possible that fly spray, air freshener or similar could have gotten in?
 
The raised nitrite indicates an ammonia spike.
 
SimpleDog said:
was there a pH spike? I have seen rapid pH spike wipe out fish and leave the water cloudy.
 
That didn't cross my mind to check, but very useful to know. I'm half way through refilling after about 95% water change so that parameter lost.... 
shout.gif

Note to self: Check everything when disaster strikes.... Thanks :)
 
 
l_l_l said:
I agree with the clown loach, if they were smaller I'd have a few of them myself, they amaze me.
 
 
Mine were a lost cause in a 125l tank. Long story but if I say 'LFS to blame' you might get the picture :) Was going to donate them but they got so interesting I decided to wait until they'd grown a bit before passing them on...
 
Hope you figure it out. And best of luck to you when you restock. Its sad to hear of tank devastation
 

Most reactions

Back
Top