Another Cycling Question

[SarahMarie]

So I'm on day 16 of my fishless cycle. I test the water every other day with API master kit. The ammonia is going down to 0ppm from adding 3ppm. But nitrite seems to be stuck at 5ppm. Is this normal for this stage into the cycle?
Also, my nitrate reading have been coming back between 40ppm-80ppm but when I tested it this morning it's only coming back as around 5ppm. I tested it twice to be sure too
My ph is around 7.6 and I haven't used any media or bottle bacteria
Any advice anyone? Thanks in advance

 

[Essjay]

With the API tester, 5.0 is the highest the nitrite colour chart goes. Anything higher than that still shows as 5.0. With your tester showing 5, you can't know what the real level is.
 
How often are you adding ammonia? Every time it drops to zero as in the old 'add and wait' method, or are you following TwoTankAmin's newer method?

 

[SarahMarie]

I've been following the new method

 

[Essjay]

What stage are you at with TTA's new method?
 
If I have understood it correctly, you add 3ppm's worth of ammonia and test on day 1 (the day you start), then test on days 4, 7, 10, 13 and so on every third day. The first time you see ammonia below 0.75 AND nitrite above 2.0, you add another 3ppm's worth of ammonia. From now on you test once every 2 days and when you have two zero readings for ammonia in a row (ie zero the first time, then 2 days later, zero the second time) you add 1/3 of the amount of ammonia you added before. Keep on testing every two days, and adding the smaller dose of ammonia when you have two ammonia zeros in a row. Until a test shows ammonia below 0.25 AND nitrite below 1.0..........
I'll stop there as you haven't got to that stage yet.
 
When you said

The ammonia is going down to 0ppm from adding 3ppm

 
do you mean you've added that amount at the start then added it just once more when the ammonia fell to zero, then a third of that amount every 4 days; or do you mean you are adding 3ppm whenever you have a zero reading for ammonia?

 

[SarahMarie]

I've been adding 3ppm everytime I had a reading of 0. Has that messed up the cycle?

 

[Essjay]

I think it might have done - but it can be solved. The reason for not adding much ammonia is that you need to keep your nitrite down as too high nitrite affects the cycle.
 
 
It would probably be a good idea to see if TwoTankAmin notices this thread and gives his advice, but I think you would be better off doing a water change to get rid of the nitrite your bacteria have been making, then start testing every 2 days as per his instructions, and adding a third of the ammonia you have been adding when you see two zero ammonia - that is zero ammonia and then zero ammonia again 2 days after that. Then carry on with his instructions.

 

[SarahMarie]

Thanks so much I'll do a water change now. What percentage of water would you say to change?

 

[Essjay]

I'll get told off for this, but you could try putting 1ml of tank water into the test tube and fill it up to the line with tapwater - or better still, bottled water if you have any - and test this for nitrite. You should really use distilled or RO for this test, but it will give you a very, very approx idea. The real nitrite level will be somewhere in the region of 5 times higher than the result you get.
If this diluted test gives a reading in the bottom half of the colour chart, I'd be inclined to do 50%. In the top half of the colour chart, maybe 70%. But if it still reads 5.0 it could be way higher than that so you'd need a huge water change.
 
 
But if one of the experts says differently, do what they say!

 

[SarahMarie]

Ok I'm doing a 50% water change now. Then I'll test the water and let you know the results. Thanks so much. You're being a great help!

 

[SarahMarie]

Right I've just done two 50% water changes and the nitrite is down to around 2ppm and ammonia 0.25ppm

 

[Essjay]

What I would do now is what TTA calls the maintenance dose. Add ammonia at one third of the amount you added to get 3ppm. Test on Tues then on Thurs. If ammonia is zero on both days but the nitrite is still above 1ppm, and another one third dose. Keep on testing every two days and if the nitrite is above 1ppm at the testings add another one third dose when you have 2 consecutive zeros for ammonia. That means in practice, add the one-third dose every 4 days while the nitrite test shows a reading of over 1ppm.
But as soon as you get a set of results that show less than 0.25 for ammonia AND less than 1.0 for nitrite, and the full 3ppm dose.
Then test after 24 hours. If both read zero, you are cycled. If one or both do not read zero, test every 24 hours until ammonia is less than 0.25 and nitrite less than 1.0 and add another 3ppm dose. Continue testing every 24 hours, and if both are zero, then you're finished; and if not wait until you get less than 0.25 ammonia and less than 1.0 nitrite and add a 3ppm dose of ammonia. You see the pattern here

 
Once you get to the double zero day, you'll be cycled. Do a water change and get fish.
 
If you can't get fish right away, add the one-third-of-3ppm every 2 to 3 days, then do a water change just before you go fish shopping.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Appologies to TTA for rephrasing your instructions

 

[SarahMarie]

I've decided just to do an almost complete water change. Does anyone know if I should add 3ppm or 1ppm to the water? I'm wondering if it would effectively be starting again. Stuck at which point I should carry on from? Any help anyone? Thanks

 

[SarahMarie]

Sorry, I'm on my phone so I didn't see your post earlier. Thanks so much. You're a lifesaver!!! I'll do that then
I guess I misunderstood the cycling guide haha. Thanks again, it's really appreciated!

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Only one snack should be needed. It is done because of the lag time between the ammonia eaters and the nitrite eaters to become established. The snack prevents the ammonia bacteria which have already become established form back sliding while the nitrite ones finish up establishing. The final dose or two to finish the cycle will bulk the ammonia eaters right back up if they had slid at all as long as you do the snack dose.
 
Nowhere in the cycling directions does it say to top up anything. It clearly states how much to dose and when. It is like a map or a recipe, one follows the directions. If you follow the directions you get the results it states you should. if you depart for the directions, you get lost and the cycle will likely not go well. Topping up is what will cause things to go out of control.
 
The overall dosing is simple and minimal. People are apparently reading in instructions that are not there and are not implied. The chart makes this graphically clear as well. The basic dosing is:
 
Dose #1 To achieve a 3 ppm starting level.
 
Dose #2  Same as the first when you see .75 ppm or lower ammonia and 2 ppm or higher for nitrite. it says dose the same amount as the first time not to the same ppm. if one has any ammonia showing at all when the second dose is made the total ammonia present will be 3 ppm plus that left over amount. (This would be a max. of something under 3.75 ppm.)
 
Dose #3 Snack dose = 1/3 of dose #1 amount. You must have 2 consecutive test at 0 for ammonia before feeding this snack.
 
Dose #4 Test dose- same amount as the first dose-  when ammonia is .25 ppm or lower and nitrite is clearly under 1 ppm. If both ammonia and nitrite are 0 in under 24 hours, the cycle is done if not. do the next dose as below.
 
Any more doses are the same amount as the first dose when ammonia is again .25 ppm or lower and nitrite is again clearly under 1 ppm.
 
The directions indicate it should taker between 4 - 5 ammonia additions from start to finish of a cycle. One is the snack dose and all the rest the bigger amount.

 

[SarahMarie]

Aaahhh I see! I've totally misunderstood the cycling guide! How stupid of me. Thanks for clearing that up for me TwoTank. It's appreciated