Another Cycling Question!

[fish12]

1. Do i understand it, once my ammonia and nitrite rise i do i water change, every week water change, then after how ever long it takes my nitrate should strat rising slowly then once they get to a toxic level i do another water change??

Is this right guys if not please explain it to me in the simplest way possbile!!!
Thanks you

 

[DrRob]

Is this a fish in cycle or a fishless? Very different answers depending on that one.

 

[fish12]

Fish in cycle ( i know its not recommend.) but we all have different ways!

 

[fluttermoth]

For a fish in cycle, you need to do as many, and as large, water changes as necessary to stop both ammonia and nitrite ever getting above 0.25ppm.

Chemically what happens is this;

when you add the fish, the ammonia will rise
after a time, the ammonia eating bacteria will grow and the ammonia will fall
as a by product of those ammonia-eating bacteria, the nitrite will rise
then the nitrite-eating bacteria will grow and the nitrite will fall
as a by product from the nitrite-eating bacteria, the nitrate will rise

Fish in cycles will be slower than fishless, as you can't allow the ammonia to get as high as you would with a fishless cycle, so it takes longer for the bacteria to build up.

 

[DrRob]

OK. Then you want to keep the ammonia and nitrite down as close to 0 as possible, generally with large water changes (remember the dechlorinator). They can rise quite quickly so sometimes (dependent on tank size and stocking) it can be daily. Ammonia drops first and usually fairly quickly, nitrite can be a pain and take a while. The levels that are lower than the test kit can read are plenty to drive the filter bacteria (and, if you think about it, are what you want the bacteria feeding off in the long term).

Once the nitrate rises with 0 ammonia and nitrite then you can back off to regular maintenance changes. There is debate about what is best here, but my answer would be to drop to weekly, but it's not just changing nitrates, it's taking away all of the unmeasurable toxic build ups.

 

[fish12]

Chemically what happens is this;

when you add the fish, the ammonia will rise
after a time, the ammonia eating bacteria will grow and the ammonia will fall
as a by product of those ammonia-eating bacteria, the nitrite will rise
then the nitrite-eating bacteria will grow and the nitrite will fall
as a by product from the nitrite-eating bacteria, the nitrate will rise.

Ok... The ammonia rising from fish waste.. I do a water change to bring it down?? Or do i let it keep going until i start to see nitrite rising?? ( wouldnt replacing the water after i see any bit of ammonia be pointless as im not letting it cycle through the stages??

Or do i let ammiona rise then drop then nitrite rise and drop then nitrate rise then water change??

Fish waste makes ammonia, ammonia make nitrites, then nitrites make nitrate where do i need to do the water changes??

Sorry guys( im just confused becuase my mate can setup a tank( new) threw in some fish( forgot the names) and there doin great its been 2 months now and he has only cleaned it twice)

I hope the next reply will be simple enough from to to uderstand when i need to water change after what happens thank you

 

[fluttermoth]

Test your water.

If either ammonia or nitrite are above 0, then you need to do a water change.

Change as much water as possible; leave just enough for the fish to swim upright before refilling with temperature matched, dechorinated water. Don't forget to switch your heater/filter off first!

If you were doing a fishless cycle, then yes, you'd let the ammonia and nitrite rise and fall naturally with the growth of the bacteria, but it would be dangerous for your fish to let that happen.

Your filter will still cycle with levels of ammonia and nitrite that are too small to register on out home test kits.

As for your mate, well some people can do everything wrong and 'get away with it', but I can assure that his fish will not live as long as they should, or grow properly.

 

[fish12]

Thanks mate i fully understand!!! I am now on the hunt for some bottled ammonia in Australia as the fishless cycle sounds easier and much more nicer. How do u cycle your tank,s?

Thanks to all replys

 

[fluttermoth]

Are you going to return the fish you have now and do a fishless cycle, or is that for another tank?

I did a fishless cycle originally, but with fish food left to rot down; the ammonia method wasn't really known about in those days!

Now I just 'clone' filters by taking a bit of the media from an established filter and adding that to the filter in the new tank. As long as you're careful (test often, feed sparingly, be prepared for a few extra water changes) you can add fish straight away, to the amount the media was previously supporting.

If that sounds complicated, what I mean by it is; if you have a cycled filter in a tank with, say 10 guppies, you could take a 1/4 of that media and your new tank would be able to support two or three guppies straight away.

Hope that makes sense, I'm rubbish at explaining this!

 

[fish12]

Thanks mate, umm i hadnt bought the fish yet i was seeing what everyone opions are...check out my other post that u already commented on ive added a link do u reckon this stuff is safe, there is a link halfway doen the page with a materials data sheet..

 

[fluttermoth]

Oh, ok, well, then definitely go fishless

I'll have a look now for you now

 

[fish12]

I decided to go vist a few of my friends today.

First friends house i ask him if he minded if i tested his water:
Ph:7.4
Ammonia:0.25ppm
Nitrtie:0ppm
Nitrate:40ppm

after that result he then wanted to do a water change lol

Then it was another mates house he had just recently setup a tank (3weeks old)
PH: 8
Amminoa:0.25ppm
Nitrite:0ppm
Nitrate:10ppm

He was unsure about his readings and didnt act on it.as he didnt know what to do.

then i want to test my tap water just cause i can:
PH: slighty alkaline
Amminoa:0ppm
Nitrite:0ppm
Nitrate:0ppm

they both didnt mind me post there results
all i want to know are ammonia and nitrate ment to be showing at the same time??
and if these readings are good?


i cant wait to setup my fish tank as now i am aware what to look for and what to do cant wait thanks guys