Angels

[tomstanks]

Is it possible to keep several angels together of the dwarf and full sized variety? I know there are some serious issues with angels fighting. Is it possible and all and if so what varieties?

 

[andywg]

There are some which are more tolerant, but you are mostly waiting on the roll of the dice unless you have a pretty huge tank.

A great guide on angels (including mixing them) is Angelfish and Butterflyfish (Reef Fishes Volume 3) by Scott Michael

 

[STD]

I have 4 Angels

Blueface
Queen
Fireball
Coral beauty

Very little aggression

IMO it is much easier to mix Angels than it is to mix Tangs

 

[shibby]

i think you can also keep shoals of them, ive heard some sucees stories of dwarf angel shoals just yesterday, however i think only a few will tolerate being in a shoal e.g. fireball or flameback angel.

 

[STD]

i think you can also keep shoals of them, ive heard some sucees stories of dwarf angel shoals just yesterday, however i think only a few will tolerate being in a shoal e.g. fireball or flameback angel.

Yup I had a pair of fireballs till one committed suicide

A shoal of Flames would be great - but expensive - Ideally you want a male and five or six females - not a clue how you sex them tho

If you are going to mix Angels the order you introduce them is important - most aggressive last

 

[Lynden]

Is it possible to keep several angels together of the dwarf and full sized variety? I know there are some serious issues with angels fighting. Is it possible and all and if so what varieties?

I know that at least one web site (saltwaterfish.com) is totally pedantic on these fish and honestly I never heard of it until I read their website.

All Centropyge and Genicanthus can be kept in groups, and some C. can also be kept in pairs. They are protogynous hermaphrodites, like clownfish and wrasses, so it is best to buy all females and one will develop into a male.

As for mixing larger and seperate species... no large angel I know of can be kept as a group, though an adult and a juvenile can sometimes be mixed. Seperate species can be kept together as long as they are of a different genus and not too similar.

 

[SkiFletch]

All Centropyge and Genicanthus can be kept in groups, and some C. can also be kept in pairs. They are protogynous hermaphrodites, like clownfish and wrasses, so it is best to buy all females and one will develop into a male.

As for mixing larger and seperate species... no large angel I know of can be kept as a group, though an adult and a juvenile can sometimes be mixed. Seperate species can be kept together as long as they are of a different genus and not too similar.

Correct. Difficulty though is finding a method for purchasing all females... Typically those collected by underpaid overworked local collecters are the more desireable (marketable) males. Hence they usually fight when added in pairs/groups. If you can work with a supplier and are assured all females, then you can totally keep a harem of Centropyge angles.

There is one exception I know of as far as larger angels to that rule of thumb Lynden. Male-female pairs of swallowtail angels are kept relatively commonly in the hobby. Dunno if they're protogynous hermaphrodytes or not, but I do know that one of the gals in my local club keeps a pair in a 150g.

Either way, if you're gonna mix dwarf angels you'll need a big tank, at least a 75g IMO. And for fullsize angels, I'd reccomend at least a 150g.

 

[Lynden]

There is one exception I know of as far as larger angels to that rule of thumb Lynden. Male-female pairs of swallowtail angels are kept relatively commonly in the hobby. Dunno if they're protogynous hermaphrodytes or not, but I do know that one of the gals in my local club keeps a pair in a 150g.

Swallowtail angels are included in the Genicanthus genus (mentioned in the other paragraph), so yes they are protogynous hermaphrodites. The female Genicanthus are usually less colourful than the males; they are the only genus of angels that exhibits sexual dichromism.

They are also a great example of convergent evolution; they diverged from their grazing cousins and went the planktonivore route, like anthias, and are sexually dichromatic, like anthias. Interesting to note that most planktonivorous triggers are sexually dichromatic as well, whereas "benthic" triggers are not (excepting the undulate trigger which has minor differences between sexes). All of these guys can be kept in a harem but males can't be kept together.

 

[tomstanks]

My main issue was hoping to be able to keep a Potter's angel, a Flame angel, and a Coral beauty in the same 265 gallon tank. I would love to do so with large ones as well, but they seem to be far more aggressive.

 

[SkiFletch]

Oh sure, you can totally mix conspecifics in a tank that big. Your best bet would be to add the three simultaneously just for territorial worries, but they'll do just fine in that tank.

 

[tomstanks]

Well, the Flame is already there. The cost of these babies makes buying them all at the same time.....painful.

 

[Lynden]

I know what you mean. I wouldn't be surprised of many fish were worth more than their weight in gold!

 

[tomstanks]

I know what you mean. I wouldn't be surprised of many fish were worth more than their weight in gold!

No kidding, the flame angel I bought cost me $ 64.64 USD. Amazing specimen though! Eating, picking at the rock. I feel very good about the purchase.

 

[chrissaysyes]

Are any dwarf angels certain to be reef safe? Or maybe less prone to nip at corals than others?

 

[STD]

Are any dwarf angels certain to be reef safe? Or maybe less prone to nip at corals than others?

Any dwarf Angel is pot luck with corals - some are fine some aren't

The only truly reef safe Angels are the Genicanthus Angels - at the other end of the spectrum is my Blueface which has totally devastated my reef

I know of plenty of people who have had Angels in their reefs with no problems but as I say it is potluck