Angels And Gouramis

[atmmachine816]

ok completly new to the world of gouramis if the answer to this question is in the stickys let me know and i will read through them this weekend but i dont have enough time right now but do gouramis and angels get along and would they get along with the other fish in my tank all the fish are full grown

 

[sylvia]

Do you mean this tank:
30 gallon - 2 angels, 2 cories, 1 female guppy, 1 fancy tail male, 1 male betta, 1 fancy tail female?

If so, you need to be aware of certain things before considering new additions.

First of all, male bettas and male guppies tend to not get along. This is because bettas tend to mistake male guppies, with their long fins and bright colors, for rival male bettas. The result is generaly dead guppies.

You also have to keep in mind that, once mature, if your angels turn out to be a pair, particularly if they choose to spawn, they will take over the tank and become rather territorial. At this point, your betta is likely to lose a lot of fins, possibly even be attacked and killed. Remember that he is also territorial, so the angels and betta will be competing.

Small fish always stand a risk of getting eaten by large angels so the guppies (most likely the male because they tend to be smaller) are at risk.

As for adding gouramies, you already have one in there - bettas are gouramies. Having said that, I'm shure you'll realise that the word 'gourami' describes many species so answering your question isn't a simple yes or no - or at least it wouldn't be were it not for your betta.

Because you already own a betta (and are limmited on remaining stocking room anyway), I would not suggest adding any more gouramies. Bettas and other gouramies don't usualy get along. Fights break out over territory, the angels'll get pulled into it and your tank will no longer be peaceful. It's very likely either the betta or new gourami would end up dead.

If you want to add something to your tank, I'd suggest a few more cories. You'll actualy be pretty much fully stocked if you were to add 2-4 more of the catfish. Keep in mind that cories are schooling fish and like to be in kept in groups - 4 minnimum is the usual reccomendation.

 

[atmmachine816]

ok yes that is the tank and let me explain the situation to you my grandpa died last summer so i got one of his tanks and my aunt got his other 2 i got 6 angels 30 guppies and 3 corys from him gave 2 angels to my aunt 1 angel got sick and died and the other was to aggresive and had to get rid of him as for the guppeis since my grandpa bred guppies for fun and had a tank full of them a lot of the guppies were still small and the angels ate them all except 7 then finallly ate one and i was left with 3 angels 6 guppies 3 corys one cory got sick and died too and thats around when i got rid of the angel so i now had 2 corys 2 angels 6 guppies and i put in my betta everybody got along fine but then the guppeis got old and i only have 1 left and i have gotten 2 more as you can see so now i have what is in my tank the guppies swim everywhere and all the other fish could care less about them the betta has his small little territory and the angels are a mated pair and periodically mate on my filter tube but dont become aggresive and so all my fish live peacefully right now but as for stocking i am under stocked here are the inches of fish angels total of 9 corys a total of 5 guppies a total of 4 and betta total of 2 total=20 inches of fish as for adding more corys i tried that and the cory died and did not play with the other corys the corys and angles are almost 12 years old i think thats why i dont want to add anymore as for the betta yes i knew he is a gourami he usees a labryinth to breath like gouramis and make bublenests

so what you are saying if i add another gourami it will fight with my betta

 

[atmmachine816]

did a little more research and you are right no gouramis really wil work in my tank except maybe a dwarf what do you think

 

[sylvia]

No gouramies AT ALL will work with a betta and with so many top and mid-dwelling territorial fish (your adult angels and betta).

BTW, not all fish that can breathe air are gouramies. For example, neither ctenopomas or snakeheads are gouramies yet both have 'labyrinths'.

The fact that the new cory you added died suggests you have a case of old tank syndrome. It may also just be that the cory was from a bad batch - but most are very hardy. Anyway, if you couldn't keep a cory, a dwarf gourami is certainly NOT going to make it. Dwarfs are highly prone to disease - particularly degenerative internal bacterial infections.

Check your water parameters and increase your frequency of water changes.

About you being under-stocked - I do agree, I just don't think you have that much room for more fish - and certainly not any top-dwellers like gouramies as both gouramies (including your betta) and angels, preffer to set up territories in the upper layers.

As for the total going by the inch per gallon guideline: 2 angels (total of 12"), 2 cories (total of 5-6"), 1 female guppy (1.5-2"), 1 fancy tail male (1"), 1 male betta (2-3"), 1 fancy tail female (1.5-2") = 23-28"
In a 30 gallon, considering displacement, frequency of water changes and fish behaviour are not taken into acount and that the guideline actualy only applies to neon-sized fish, you don't have all that much room left in a 30 gallon. I'm not suggesting you don't have ANY - I'm just saying you don't have all that much and that, as cories are schoolers, it would be better to concentrate on improving their lives than adding something new altogether and filling up that space you do have to spare.

 

[atmmachine816]

no the angels are rather small one is 4" and one is 5" and its not the tank becasue i added a clown pleco and then found out he didnt eat algae and gave him back and he was fine i added the two fancy tails a few days before the cory and they are still living so its not old tank syndrome

angel 1 4"
angel 2 5"
cory 1 1.5"
cory 2 2.5"
betta 2"
guppie male 1"
guppie fancy female 1.5"
guppie feeder female 1.5"
total approx. 19"

 

[sylvia]

You are not supposed to use current size when estimating the number of fish you can keep - it's full-grown size you should be using. Angels get to 6". Cories can get to 2.5-3" Note also that angels also grow much 'taller' than other fish. They are also (obviously) chunkier than a neon (which is the sort of fish the inch per gallon guideline is based). If youe fish have not reached full size, it suggests either that they are unhealthy/stunted or not actualy as old as you think. Also, like I mentioned before, the guideline does not consider behaviour (eg: schooling, territoriality, aggression or 'messyness') and it does not take into acount displacement of water by ornaments/gravel/internal filters/heaters and it is only meant to apply to very small, low waste-producing fish. Angels fall into the high-waste, messy, territorial category, cories are schoolers and bettas can be both territorial and aggressive. Like I said before, I don't think you are fully stocked yet as the inch per gallon guideline is after all only a guideline and can be stretched. But I do think you need to keep in mind all aspects when deciding how much more room you have for stocking and appreciate that these guidelines we use have some major limmitations and, while taking into acount waste relatively well, do not consider behaviour at all. Again, it is your cories that are suffering as a result and it is your cories that deserve to have some more companions added to the tank to fill in the room you do have left. A minnimum group of 4 cories is suggested usualy - 2 isn't realy enough for a schooling fish as social as these catfish.

 

[Miss Dib Dabs]

I have to agree with Sylvia. Aim for cories. I added 7 baby cories to my 3 adults and they've been great. The youngsters are growing well and settling wonderfully. They love the bigger group. They are actually two different species although one of the 7 was the same species as the adults(He was all alone in a tank looking sad) and he spends all his time with the adults. I'd suggest going to a reputable store for the cories and give them a real good look over. If they are healthy and lively at the store chances are they'll do well at home. But check your params first to ensure they're all ok. I often like to do a small water change in addition to the normal weekly changes when I have new fish coming in and it can never do harm.
Hugs,
P.