Angelfish

[The Equillibrium]

Hey guys,


I am considering breeding Angels. I wanted to know what setup would be best for them. Actually, maybe a bit more complicated. Can someone maybe tel me how I could change my tank(in any way but size)to fit to angels needs from the very basics being a 1 on the scale, and the best the could be(probably a river )as a 10.



My tank is 46 gallon bowfront. 200 watt heater, magnum H.O.T. Pro system w/ bio-wheel, 30 watt fleourescant light(i know its a bit low), 10 neons, 10 small micky mouse platys, 5 dwarf gouramis, and 5 otos.


This tank is in the slow changing of fake plants to live, one at a time. About 1/4th live now.



Thanks vetty much

 

[Tolak]

Before you consider breeding, find someplace to sell or give away 200 to 400 angels. Then you need to find room for 100 to 200 gallons of tank space for growout. These tanks all need heaters & filtration.

Once you have all that figured out, get 6 to 8 smaller angels for the 46 gallon, let them grow & form a pair. It would be a good idea to get rid of the neons, they are a nice snack for larger angels. I would do a species only tank, as angels like it a bit warmer, my angel tanks are 82F to 85F. Some of the fish you have may not be comfortable at a higher temp.

Plan on at least a 20 high for the pair, a 29 is better. 20's & 29's work well for a breeding setup, 55's are good growout tanks.

Entire books have been written on breeding angels, the biggest thing you can do now is plan ahead.

 

[The Equillibrium]

I was thinking they spawn in the 46, I pull the spawn(always staying in water)into a 10 gall, I move them to a 20 in about a month. After another month, i take half of them into another 20. then about 10-12 weeks in, at the silver dollor size, I can give to the stores.

All tanks but 46 are bare bottemed. Alll are at 82 degree F, and all baby angels are fed bbs from birth to selling at 12 weeks of age.


I am going tommorrow to see who will take 200-500 angels. That was my main concern.


How is this plan?

 

[Tolak]

You will need more tank space;

Newly free swimming fry 40 fry per gallon
Two week old fry 20 fry per gallon
Month old fry 10 fry per gallon
Pea size bodies 3 fish per gallon
Dime size bodies 2 fish per gallon
Nickel size bodies 1 fish per gallon
Quarter size bodies 1 fish per 2 gallons
Silver Dollar size bodies 1 fish per 3 gallons
Potential breeders 1 fish per 5 gallons
Show Specimens 1 fish per 10 gallons
One breeding pair 20 gallon high tank

They will stay in the 10 gallon for 2 to 3 weeks, need to be put in a 20 or 29 for a couple more weeks, split between a pair of 20's or 29's two weeks after that. Beyond that you need a couple of 55's. Any overcrowding causes deformed fins & ventrals.

There is no way you will have silver dollar size fish in 10 to 12 weeks, this takes better than 6 months, usually closer to a year, and is somewhat dependant on tank space, water changes, diet, and genetics. In that amount of time you will have dime to nickel body size fish. You will want them to be taking flake long before you sell them.

 

[The Equillibrium]

Sorry, it looks like I mixed up the standards of the growth speepds among angel breeders...idk why I had that idea(10-12 weeks is silver dollar). So my plan i assume was good but incomplete? ill do what I said before but go on to the next step in 3 weeks rather than 4. Ill also add another step of 55 for each half after the 20. I imagine my father will laugh at me even thinking of this...even if it is going to be paid for by me.


epmty 10 gallon-1x $0.00(have already w/ heater)
empty 20 gallon-2x $50.00(comes w/ lights?)
empty 55 gallon-2x $80.00(comes w/ lights?)

100 watt heater-2x $20.00
250 watt heater-2x $35.00


Total- $370.00(already have lifetime supply of bs eggs)




What do you guys sugggest I could say to my dad to argue? ...yeah im pretty lowdown desperate...

 

[Tolak]

I would use 29’s instead of 20’s; they are more flexible in regards to future use. You can keep a larger veil pair in them, or divide them for two smaller pairs. Check out http/www.glasscages.com/ for cheap tanks, if they are doing a show near you they will bring the tanks you ordered.

Don’t forget about filters, you will need sponge filters for fry tanks, hob’s are a little too strong for young angels. Store bought light, stands, & tops are expensive, I’m cheap & diy all of them. Home made racks, flouro light diffuser panels, and Home Depot flouro fixtures are standard equipment on my breeding setup. Take a look at http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=138615&hl= to see what I am running. You need to add in a little more for lumber & screws, as well as upgrading your water change equipment to some sort of python or system of hoses & pumps.

If you are successful at selling, the angels will pay for your gear, mine have. I get anywhere from 75 cent at auctions to $1.50 from the better shops per angel. Your main overhead will be electric for the heaters, mine is $50 per month. Water here is $4 per 1000 gallons; I probably spend $20 monthly on other food & supplies. My break-even point is around 75 angels sold per month. It’s certainly nothing to quit your day job over, but they support themselves, with a little pocket cash here & there.

 

[The Equillibrium]

I have only seen a single size sponge filter. I think its for a 10 gallon. Should I have multiple in the tankks or find a bigger size?

I guess you are right about high costs and how they pay for themselves, but then again...I wasnt looking to make money...well at leat not a lot.

I saw a $7.99 36" hood at Home Depot with 2 32 watt bulbs. Would this suffice?

29's probably are better for the fry and water changes etc.


I have a 25 foot python I usse for my 10 gallon and 46 gallon communitys.

About the spawning place...where would it be again? I heard you say 20 high, but are'nt those horrible for oxygen and the likes? If they werre to spawn in the 46 community, I presume they would kill alot of my other fish(10 neons, 5 dwarf gouramis, 5 otos, 10 platys)out of teritorialism. If they did however spawn in the 46, I would get a big tuberware(spelling? ) and put it in the 46 tank. id move the spawn item whether it be plant or rock etc. into the tuberware and keep water in the tuberware at all timees to keep the egs wet. I mave this into a 10 gallon with identical conditions and go from there as we said before?


Thank you for your help. I didnt think i'd get much help from here.

 

[Tolak]

You can buy larger sponges; http/www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl36...rospongefilter5 Or you can make your own. Being cheap, I make my own for around $2 each, they are the blue cubes with pvc sticking out of the top.

Paying for themselves is a good point to mention to dad, it works for my wife. She is real happy when I drop off some fish at the lfs, then we stop to buy groceries on the way home, the fish are feeding us.

That fixture should be fine, if you look at the second & third pic in my link, the one with the 29’s in the corner you will see no lights above the tanks. They are lit with a single 36†fixture mounted vertically on the side of one of the racks, using the corner as a reflector. No one says you have to have the light above the tank, I’ve seen setups with rows of tanks with lights on the bottom behind them. They just sit there, and slide out for any light maintenance. A 4 foot flouro behind a row of 5 or 6 ten gallons looks nice.

20’s & 29’s are taller tanks, angels need that height. I’ve never had O2 problems with a taller tank; as long as you have surface motion for O2 transfer they will be fine. You could get a divider for the 46; this will keep the pair separate from the other fish, eliminating aggression problems. This is another thing I make myself. Angels like to spawn on vertical objects with a slight angle, I like to use pvc, others will use slate. They will also spawn on plants, another reason there are a few silk plants here & there in my tanks.

You really don’t need to keep the spawn submerged, I never do. It’s out of the water for anywhere from 10 to around 45 seconds, depending on which tank I pull it from. Usually some anti-fungals are needed in the hatching tank, it seems harder water with a higher pH needs them more than softer water with a low pH. I have my recipe in this post; http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=96104

BTW, thank you moderator for moving this to N.W. Cichlids!

 

[The Equillibrium]

What size tank is that sponge filter for? I'll buy 4 as I'm not good with the DIY stuff.


The spawning tank... I can buy a 29 just for that. If I do that, should I move the spawn to a 10 or can I just leave it in there for 6 weeks then split into another, up to 50's...yeah.

How big do angels nee to be to breed? I saw some silver dollar size ones for sale, but I must assume they cannot breed...?

I am thinking that having the pair at all in the 46 is asking for trouble. I can spawn them in a 20 or 29. I don't know if I can find a 20 high...maybe...probably...yeah I can .

*in my head *...After the spawn... hmm. good question Mr.self. Maybe I'll buy yet another tank to be an angel community? Lets go ask Lord Tolak. Ok lets go Mr. Self.**

Another question...how to cycle all these tanks? Use the water from the 46 gallon maybe?


Tolak, Thank you so very much for your time and knowledge. It looks like my dad will let me get the tanks...I have $2400 in the bank asking to be spent...very politely of course . I found 29's for $28 and 50's for $50.


I have calculteed everything...it comes down to $681.45 including tax. This covers everything but stands and water conditioners which I already have a nice supply of. This is something I am willing to pay as I understand why I need it. I hate seing a new person trying to breed and they expect to pay a minusle price. I was of those new people before when I breed bettas. They never passed a half inch and nly a few survived. Now with all the equipment I need, I can stretch my wings if you will, and breed these fish!