Angelfish Question

[metfan581]

Thanks,
I going over to the plant section now.

 

[!Gina]

I really love those pics, its great to see the fish doing so well in their natural environment.
I've not had much success in keeping angelfish, they tend to get terratorial and enjoy quite heavily planted tanks so they have room to hide and dont feel too terratorial towards other fish.

Certain types of bogwood will add a tint to the water, I would still clean it first, but they say this tint is good for the fish and promotes healthy colours.
If i were you, i'd try looking through search engines and maybe fishprofiles.com? You can get some gorgeous natural looking plants from greenline or java?

Hope this helps

 

[Kopix Nation]

I have order three altums.... And I can so agree that they are a really pretty angelfish.... But I would so wait and see how you do with the domestics before going for the big boys... Those altums can grow over a foot high!! And need tanks that are at least 21 inches high MINIMUM. I have been studying my butt off on that speices of Pterophyllum and have found 75% of the time the people end their altum paragraphs with : Should be attempted to be kept by expert or fish keepers with experence.... Now I am not an expert but my obsessiveness about this fish is something that comes naturaly. I would go for Peruvian altums if you really want something like the altum but not as hard to keep. I currently have one Peruvian altum and he is not that hard to keep. Just make sure that you aclumate them properly. I specalize in the wonderful world of Pterophyllums! And I couldn't be more in love with my little cutties (one koi angelfish, one silver, and the one Peruvian)!!!! You really get attached to them they are just so much fun to keep!! I also would recommend anachris and amazon or green melon swords for plants... Any long stem plant is relished by the Peruvian altums! I have 11 kinds of long stem, sword, and other kinds of plants. I have stuffed the tank full of plants and my Peruvian could not be happier!

claire

P.S if I call my angelfish by their names keep in mind that:
Kopix=koi angelfish
Aegean=peruvian altum
Basette=silver angelfish B)

 

[metfan581]

Thanks every one

 

[FishEnthusiast]

I really recommend against putting any small tetra in with angels. I started my tank with 1 angel and 10 neons. The neons became breakfast, lunch and dinner. I didn't think the angel did it originally. Then I added 10 glowlights. I didn't really notice the glo lites missing until I had 7 left. The reason I noticed was because I turned on the light one morning and the angel was happily munching away on a glowlight. His tail was sticking out of his mouth and it was still moving .

Needless to say, the rest of the glowlights were put back into the tank I took them out of.

As for the blackwater conditions, they love it. You can acheive this by adding bog wood or by adding black water extract. I have used the black water extract with great success. The tank looks very nice with the water a little yellow. It makes the angels more comfortable as it is more natural to them.

I also advise against 2 pairs in a 55G. I say 1 pair is more than enough. I have one large ange(about 4"-5") and a medium sized angel(about 2"). They breed every 7-10 days without fail. The male does not tolerate any other fish near the slate they spawn on. He easily has a territory that covers 3/4 of the tank. He can be quite aggressive and would probably do a lot of damage to another angel.

 

[demonmagus]

how do you sex angelfish?
and don't angelfish live in the same are as discus, and discus need planted tanks, so howecome angels don't?

 

[Kopix Nation]

You can't sex angelfish..... But if you can get them to breed you then can tell. But only when they are ready to mate.

claire

 

[FishEnthusiast]

Sexing is difficult but not impossible. In older angels the male has a bit of a hump on the top of his head. The males dorsal fin is usually a little bent. Male and female breeding tubes look different too.

 

[Kopix Nation]

A hump? And bent fins? Never heard that one! And yea the breeding tube of the male is pointier than the female's.

claire

 

[metfan581]

Wow
Thanks for the extra info

 

[Kopix Nation]

I don't really like talking about angelfish sex diffrences.... It just is not really a subject I perfer.

claire

 

[FishEnthusiast]

This is what I mean about the hump and bent dorsal. This is my male and female pair. I have pointed out his hump and dorsal.

As you can see in the picture he looks quite different from his female counterpart.

This is a picture of what I believe to be a female veil tail angel to compare the dorsals.

You can see that the males dorsal is bent more than the females. Also notice both females' heads are smooth to the dorsal.

Like I said it is difficult to impossible to sex juvenile angels, the differences only really become apparant as they grow older. I believe my male angel is at least 2-3 years old. His female partner is about a year old and the female veil tail is probably 2-3 years old as well.

Here is a thread that discusses sexing angels that also talks about the hump.

 

[Kopix Nation]

I still wounder if all males have bent dorsal fins... Because isn't bent fins what a breeder looks for when he is culling small angelfish. And I have seen countless non veiltail males that are at least 3 years old that show little definition of a "hump" and their fins are perfectly straight. I look at koi pairs and only can tell the diffrence if they are ready to spawn or are spawning. I think it would be great to have a new way to sex angelfish... I just want to make sure it is correct in all forms of scalare..

claire

 

[FishEnthusiast]

This is not a new way to sex angels. It is not a surefire way either. The absolute best way to sex angels is to let them pair off on their own. Even that can backfire though as females have been known to pair off with eachother.

I know several breeders who can sex angels on first sight, and they are usually right. I am only going based on what they have told me in the past.

Not all males develop the hump on their heads, some females will pair off with eachother, fins can only take you so far. Angels are beautiful fish that like to hide a few secrets. Like I said there is no guarantee that one will accurately sex an angel, however there are methods/theories out there that seem to hold some weight.

While I don't claim to be an expert, I have done a lot of reading about sexing, breeding and raising fry as I have a breeding pair. My methods for sexing are based upon my readings and my observations of my pair.

 

[Kopix Nation]

Well thank you for the useful info I never thought females would pair with one another. Now back to the habitat of the angelfish... They need a hiding space some where om the tank. It just gives them a sense of sicurity. I rock or cave they like. Mine injoys hiding behind plants. He is a Peruvian altum (wild caught) so he is more shy than most normal angelfish... Which substrate are you going with? Sand or gravel? I would go with sand. Because my angelfish injoy puttering and snuffing around in it ... But remember that is just my opinion! Not something angelfish must have!

claire