Angel Fish Sick Again...please Help

[WILDER]

Sounds like the parasites have done there damage to the inside of the fish.
Sometimes it's to late even with internal parasite meds. Sorry.

 

[silverchild23]

I don't want to give up on him just yet...

I've just done a second dose of flubenol 15 in the tank last night, and I am going to do a second dose of Aquapet No.9 for internal bacteria tonight. He's started to nibble on a few bits of food but not much. What on earth do you think it is, the swollen belly's gone down again, but as soon as he eats more I'm sure it'll expand again.

He hasn't really pooped since he stopped eating.

If it is constipation - how much epsom salts can I use for a bath without overdosing him? I've been using 1 teaspoon per litre but to little or no effect.

 

[-germ-]

Umm...
Just reading my fishlopedia on your symptoms, theres so many its impossible to know...
If its not an infection or parasitic it could be a tumour, very rare but if your foods haven't been stored correctly, especially in damp conditions it could have a liver tumour caused by aflatoxin contamination (the most common internal tumour) depending on the form of tumour eg. whether it is cancerous, there is only a choice between quality of life or euthanasia as this is untreatable without a vet....
Other causes may be;
Vibriosis (even rarer) almost (if not) always fatal and impossible to treat....
Any of a variety of internal worms....
Google these, maybe there are other symptoms you may recognise.
If i was you (i'm not ) i'd get to the nearest bookshop and buy as big and as knowledgable a book on fish disease and treatment as you can, its going to be quicker and there'll be loads of illnesses you hadn't thought of....
In the meantime, i can't remember if its currently in with other fish, make sure you clean up its faeces as quickly as possible, if these are consumed by other fish and it is transmittable you may have a repeat incident.
Sorry i can't help
Again....
Good luck

 

[silverchild23]

Umm...
Just reading my fishlopedia on your symptoms, theres so many its impossible to know...
If its not an infection or parasitic it could be a tumour, very rare but if your foods haven't been stored correctly, especially in damp conditions it could have a liver tumour caused by aflatoxin contamination (the most common internal tumour) depending on the form of tumour eg. whether it is cancerous, there is only a choice between quality of life or euthanasia as this is untreatable without a vet....
Other causes may be;
Vibriosis (even rarer) almost (if not) always fatal and impossible to treat....
Any of a variety of internal worms....
Google these, maybe there are other symptoms you may recognise.
If i was you (i'm not ) i'd get to the nearest bookshop and buy as big and as knowledgable a book on fish disease and treatment as you can, its going to be quicker and there'll be loads of illnesses you hadn't thought of....
In the meantime, i can't remember if its currently in with other fish, make sure you clean up its faeces as quickly as possible, if these are consumed by other fish and it is transmittable you may have a repeat incident.
Sorry i can't help
Again....
Good luck

Thanks Germ

I just cant get it. I'm praying it's something as simple as internal worms (that at least is treatable) - hence why he had it bad before, felt better, then they came back again. As far as transmittable goes, I probably should have been cleaning up his faeces but I haven't and none of the other fish in the tank have got sick in the slightest (even the original angel I bought with him).
The food is always kept dry, and all the other fish feed on the same stuff, so I doubt its contamination. I guess it's a possibility it could be cancer, but he's still so young (i guess that doesn't matter with fish so much). I'll keep on trying, and maybe go buy a book like you say. But to me, I've scrambled around SO many websites now, reading this and that, and the symptoms are so non-specific, it's impossible to know exactly what he's got or how to treat it. It's driving me crazy. I think I'll just do this last course of internal bacteria treatment...maybe try some levamisole (?) ... and then all I can do is do my best for him with the right conditions for him...but if he's going to die he's going to die - just gotta give him the best life poss before then.

 

[Tolak]

If you have a vet that you can get dimetronidazole from give that a shot. In the US metronidazole, which is basically the same, is available over the counter. If I'm not mistaken it's illegal to prescribe or give metro to fish in the UK. Dimetronidazole is legal, but must be obtained through a vet. This medication takes care of internal protizoans, which are different from worms or parasites.

This is not uncommon in cichlids, particularly angels & discus. I keep metro on hand, and have treated plenty of angels with it. I'll give you my little copy & paste for what I do with angels & metro.

Put the angel in a quar tank, I usually use a 10 gallon. Increase the temp over a day or so to 90-94F. Treat daily with 40 mg/gallon metronidazole, with 50% water changes daily. If the fish isn't eating, don't feed for the first 3 days. After 3 days, get some frozen brine shrimp. Take a portion about the size of a few match heads, and sprinkle on some metro. You have to eyeball this one, make the shrimp look kind of like a tiny powdered donut. Once it thaws, mix it in & feed. Sometimes they still don't eat for a few days, but once they start to mouth the food & spit it out, the meds seem to get in their system real good. Continue medicating the water & food for 7-10 days.

Metronidazole is sold as flagyl, het-a-mit, and a few other names I can't recall offhand, used to treat hexamita & hole in the head. They usually suggest 20mg/gallon, this often isn't enough. Metro deteriorates in 8 hours, so you could do twice daily water changes. I've done this on the weekends when I have time.

I've also added epsom salt while using metro, this helps with any constipation issues, cleans out the digestive tract. I start with 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons of water, increasing by 1 teaspoon daily for 2 more days to bring it up to 3 teaspoons per 10 gallons. You will have to adjust how much you use when doing water changes. You may want to give this a try.

 

[silverchild23]

If you have a vet that you can get dimetronidazole from give that a shot. In the US metronidazole, which is basically the same, is available over the counter. If I'm not mistaken it's illegal to prescribe or give metro to fish in the UK. Dimetronidazole is legal, but must be obtained through a vet. This medication takes care of internal protizoans, which are different from worms or parasites.

This is not uncommon in cichlids, particularly angels & discus. I keep metro on hand, and have treated plenty of angels with it. I'll give you my little copy & paste for what I do with angels & metro.

Put the angel in a quar tank, I usually use a 10 gallon. Increase the temp over a day or so to 90-94F. Treat daily with 40 mg/gallon metronidazole, with 50% water changes daily. If the fish isn't eating, don't feed for the first 3 days. After 3 days, get some frozen brine shrimp. Take a portion about the size of a few match heads, and sprinkle on some metro. You have to eyeball this one, make the shrimp look kind of like a tiny powdered donut. Once it thaws, mix it in & feed. Sometimes they still don't eat for a few days, but once they start to mouth the food & spit it out, the meds seem to get in their system real good. Continue medicating the water & food for 7-10 days.

Metronidazole is sold as flagyl, het-a-mit, and a few other names I can't recall offhand, used to treat hexamita & hole in the head. They usually suggest 20mg/gallon, this often isn't enough. Metro deteriorates in 8 hours, so you could do twice daily water changes. I've done this on the weekends when I have time.

I've also added epsom salt while using metro, this helps with any constipation issues, cleans out the digestive tract. I start with 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons of water, increasing by 1 teaspoon daily for 2 more days to bring it up to 3 teaspoons per 10 gallons. You will have to adjust how much you use when doing water changes. You may want to give this a try.

Ok Thankyou Tolak - it seems you can only get from vets around here (and seeing as I work a long way from home it'll be near impossible to take him to the vet apart from on the weekend (where they charge double). I'll have a look into it and see if there is anything similar. Would Octazin by Waterlife do the trick do you think?

I'll give it my best shot anyway. Thanks

 

[Tolak]

If you call them & tell them the situation you shouldn't have to bring the fish in. Metro or dimetro is the med to use.